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Old 04-08-2020, 10:52 PM   #41
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So you are telling me if your boss told you the store hours were 12-5 during the Covid outbreak and you unilaterally decided that the hours would be 8-8 he would be happy with you. I do not believe you..
Honestly, if I could devise a way to keep the store open that puts no one at risk of getting COVID-19 and helps get our product out my boss would be elated.

Also, I said presumably ďsomeĒ teachers have been in the same system since they were five years old, which would - understandably - give them a very unilateral perspective. I was in the school system for a number of years but then moved on to other things and got a broader perspective. When I was in the school system not having three months off a year would have seemed barbaric.
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Old 04-08-2020, 10:53 PM   #42
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So your comfortable with your employees extending the open hours of your business even if you specifically told them not to?
Sure. Because if they end up selling more product they'll have proved me wrong to my benefit.
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Old 04-08-2020, 10:59 PM   #43
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I'm just waiting for Sliver to turn all of his comments on their head, by making a Matthew McConaughy closing statement like at the end of "Time to Kill". If you haven't watched that movie, you likely have time now, so you should. It's pretty good.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:03 PM   #44
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I believe there is some merit to the idea that someone who goes from student to teacher with no other meaningful jobs in between may not have the perspective of what it takes to be successful in a competitive non structured environment.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:06 PM   #45
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Dude, they now have every Friday off. To be clear, all Fridays are now off. Teachers are teaching three hours a day, four days a week. There have been 18 work days since the last day of classes on Friday, March 13th. In those 18 work days, there have been five days of three hours of instruction. If you're not upset that these $100k/year professionals are taking their full taxpayer-provided salary and giving virtually nothing in return then your expectations for your children's education are way too low. It's bordering on criminal.

They need to go to 30% pay retroactive to March 16 or be laid off.



Yes, but they have taken 13 of the last 18 days off, so now that we're rolling again it's totally ridiculous to maintain their already-gratuitous schedule of time off. They need to make up for the time they already pissed away doing nothing for two weeks.

I donít know, but we get almost daily emails from their teachers and projects to work on in Google Classroom. They have even been doing instruction in it. Maybe talk to your school. We didnít receive any notification about Easter holidays or the Friday/Monday off.

If you know the emails of individual teachers maybe get in touch with them. Itís possible youíre missing out on somethings.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:08 PM   #46
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Sure. Because if they end up selling more product they'll have proved me wrong to my benefit.
Or they increase your utility cost, get you in trouble with labour laws, and broke some rules on the lease that they werenít aware of. Because obviously you have some reasons for your operating hours that everyone might not know.

Your problem is with the Province - 5 hrs a week is too little.

However there was some reasoning behind it made by people who in theory have the best interest of the 25th percentile family in mind. I honestly think that the 5hrs a week recommendation is based on what they think they can get out of parents. Becuase the key factor in online delivery working is some super vision ensuring stuff gets handed in, printed out, scanned and all of that work.

So if the experts in education have made a recommendation on what is in the best interests of a childrenís education on what grounds should a teacher say I know more than the people who put together this plan so Iím going to go out on my own and do what I feel like?
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:05 AM   #47
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I believe there is some merit to the idea that someone who goes from student to teacher with no other meaningful jobs in between may not have the perspective of what it takes to be successful in a competitive non structured environment.
Great point.
13 years of coddled education, a few years of less than competitive university that panders to the entitled, and then fed right back into the system that produced them.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:29 AM   #48
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JFC. Just got an email from the school. I'm beyond annoyed. So of course they're taking Good Friday off, but the Monday after Easter Sunday they're ALSO taking off. No instruction and staff not available to students Friday or Monday. Fataing fire them all. It's outrageous. Next week instruction time is Tuesday - Thursday. That is pathetic. I honestly can't believe it.
It makes one think that this is could factor in to future labour negotiations.

Cooling your heels at home for several months is a much less appealing proposition on Strike Pay.

"They wont last long if the teachers go on strike!!"

Why not? This is basically that.

And pointing the finger of blame one way or the other between the various factions and administrations is fairly disingenuous. I doubt the ATA has a 'Pandemic Protocol' but if their solution given their available time and resources was to basically throw everyone into the deep-end and decree 'every man for themselves' then a lot of the complaints about ridiculous administration costs and incompetence seem to be rather firmly validated.

Again, I'm sure there are great Teachers out there going the extra mile and more, but as much as the strength of the organization comes from its unity, so too goes its public perception. The diamonds get buried amongst the rough.

I think its fair to be disheartened about the results being delivered by our education system at the moment. Complete disarray and disconnect from society.

The Health Care system is getting served a piping hot S### Sandwich and they're all lining up to take a bite for the Public Good...going above and beyond the call of duty.

Police and Emergency Services are putting themselves directly in harm's way to maintain order for the Public Good. Above and beyond.

Hell....even the Canada Revenue Agency rolled out an unprecedented implementation and distribution of Emergency Benefits in damned short order and thats an organization that couldnt find its own ass with both hands and a map on its best days!

And then you turn to the Education sector and it seems like the majority of them cant be bothered to put in even a modicum of effort to try to find and implement solutions.

Its as though this Pandemic has been treated the way Grade Schoolers treat the End-of-Day Bell on the last day of school before Summer Vacation.

We are often bludgeoned with the concept that Education is supposed to be a Calling. A Career people entered into because they had a passion for it as opposed to just a job to be forgotten as soon as your timecard was punched.

Again, I'm sure there are great teachers out there doing their best under trying circumstances but as a whole I think its pretty clear that there is a systemic problem if nobody even feels the impulse to take any initiative to adapt and if they have, schools have been closed for nearly a month and the response has been....?

Nobody was prepared for this. Fair enough. However that doesnt erase the fact that many of the other elements of the Public Service are adapting and rising to meet challenges and circumstances and then there are elements that appear to have been measured, weighed and found unapologetically wanting.

I feel as though I have to end this by saying that the current situation isnt the fault of any single one of the myriad of elements that comprise the Education system in its entirety, but rather that as a whole the entire unwieldy behemoth is showcasing some of its deepest flaws.

We just have to wait and see where Public Perception lands in the end and hope that the positive elements are recognized as the negative ones are remedied.
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Old 04-09-2020, 12:45 AM   #49
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It seems there is obviously a disparity between what different schools are doing. We have been getting lots of updates from the two different CBE schools our kids are in. Yesterday we even got informed about doing some PE activities via Google Meet.
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Old 04-09-2020, 01:05 AM   #50
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Anyone expecting members of a strong union like public teachers to go beyond the letter of their contracts is delusional. Those vacation days, stats, PD days, etc are absolutely inviolable, pandemic or no pandemic.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:28 AM   #51
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It seems there is obviously a disparity between what different schools are doing. We have been getting lots of updates from the two different CBE schools our kids are in. Yesterday we even got informed about doing some PE activities via Google Meet.
I'm so jealous of that PE email. I honestly believe phys ed is the most important class in terms of setting kids up with an understanding of how to be healthy people. I'm getting more guidance from Best Buy on how to continue buying stereo equipment during the pandemic than I am from my kids' school on how to continue their education.

Also, are there any teachers that have accepted this line GGG keeps pushing that their hands are tied...they must continue taking all their holidays and can't teach more than three hours a day, four days a week for fear of punishment by the school board? If so, what does this punishment look like? You're a unionized civil servant...you have to know your job is rock-solid safe. You're not going to get demoted. You're not going to be fired. Nothing bad will happen to you if you teach more. It's what every single parent I have spoken with wants. We need some help teaching our kids and we're paying YOU a lot of money to give us that help and you keep...going...on...vacation.
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Old 04-09-2020, 07:30 AM   #52
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Mods, is it possible to break out this conversation into a new thread? Maybe something like 'education system during the pandemic'?

If a pain to do so, no problem of course.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:34 AM   #53
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Mods, is it possible to break out this conversation into a new thread? Maybe something like 'education system during the pandemic'?

If a pain to do so, no problem of course.
The thread title is wrong. It is not the "Education System" you are discussing. It is teachers you are discussing (and bashing). A night's sleep obviously didn't help your anger towards teachers. Give it a rest. I am not a teacher.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:36 AM   #54
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I'm so jealous of that PE email. I honestly believe phys ed is the most important class in terms of setting kids up with an understanding of how to be healthy people. I'm getting more guidance from Best Buy on how to continue buying stereo equipment during the pandemic than I am from my kids' school on how to continue their education.

Also, are there any teachers that have accepted this line GGG keeps pushing that their hands are tied...they must continue taking all their holidays and can't teach more than three hours a day, four days a week for fear of punishment by the school board? If so, what does this punishment look like? You're a unionized civil servant...you have to know your job is rock-solid safe. You're not going to get demoted. You're not going to be fired. Nothing bad will happen to you if you teach more. It's what every single parent I have spoken with wants. We need some help teaching our kids and we're paying YOU a lot of money to give us that help and you keep...going...on...vacation.
Why do you think the province has mandated 5 hrs week for kids grade 6 and less?

Why do you think you know more than them?

You appear to have two issues

You disagree with the provincial recommendations

And

You think teachers should not teach the curriculum in alberta when they don’t feel like it and be allowed to teach however they want to provides they are going above and beyond based on your definition.

One of these might be a reasonable position.

Also teachers in essentially a week or two and to figure out new technology, new methods of delivery, ensure that students had some form of access to the technology, get students without access equipment, ensure students got text books.

All the while some parents are whining to them about not being able to teach enough, something that they likely agree with.

Have you emailed or called your teacher asking them about there thoughts on what is working and what is not or do you just complain here?

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Old 04-09-2020, 08:38 AM   #55
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I blame Trudeau, damn teacher.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:47 AM   #56
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Why do you think the province has mandated 5 hrs week for kids grade 6 and less?

Why do you think you know more than them?
Because it's egregious. Obviously kids need more than an hour a day to carry on with their education. If an hour a day of instruction was all they needed, what the fata was I dropping my kids off at school for five hours a day for the past decade? And if that's all that's needed, why do we employ a small army of teachers getting paid full-time salaries to work less time than my 14-year-old daughter works babysitting in a week?

Also, why do you expect answers to all your questions and hypotheticals yet you ignore my questions?

Edit: OMG, will you please quit editing your posts to add in multiple paragraphs after posting? Just post a new comment. You have done this multiple times in this conversation.

Last edited by Sliver; 04-09-2020 at 08:49 AM. Reason: GGG keeps changing his posts
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:49 AM   #57
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Because it's egregious. Obviously kids need more than an hour a day to carry on with their education. If an hour a day of instruction was all they needed, what the fata was I dropping my kids off at school for five hours a day for the past decade? And if that's all that's needed, why do we employ a small army of teachers getting paid full-time salaries to work less time than my 14-year-old daughter works babysitting in a week?

Also, why do you expect answers to all your questions and hypotheticals yet you ignore my questions?
I didn’t realize I was ignoring them. I went back through this page and didn’t see any. I am happy to answer them.

I do agree that if the hours teachers are putting in are shorter than their regular work hours because of provincial recommendations than salaries should be reduced. But the 5 hrs of work and all of the communication I suspect they are at least at 20 hrs a week which relative to the hours you believe they work normally is getting pretty close

I disagree with the provincial recommendation as well and think its ridiculous and contacted by MLA and Trustee asking them to fix it and have gotten no response. That said expecting the teachers not to teach to the curriculum is Ridiculous

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Old 04-09-2020, 08:53 AM   #58
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Omg you just did it again! Post a new comment.
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:54 AM   #59
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Omg you just did it again! Post a new comment.
Itís how I post, usually people arenít responding within seconds. Half the time itís deleting stuff that will just derail the conversation
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Old 04-09-2020, 08:59 AM   #60
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I didnít realize I was ignoring them. I went back through this page and didnít see any. I am happy to answer them.

I do agree that if the hours teachers are putting in are shorter than their regular work hours because of provincial recommendations than salaries should be reduced. But the 5 hrs of work and all of the communication I suspect they are at least at 20 hrs a week which relative to the hours you believe they work normally is getting pretty close

I disagree with the provincial recommendation as well and think its ridiculous and contacted by MLA and Trustee asking them to fix it and have gotten no response. That said expecting the teachers not to teach to the curriculum is Ridiculous
Here, I'll reply to the paragraph you just added, but it's exhausting talking to you on here because whenever I reply I find you've edited a whole new post by the time I finish typing my response.

Yes, fataing exactly. Teachers should be teaching the curriculum. The curriculum didn't disappear because the kids are at home. Teach to the curriculum from prior to COVID-19. If the school board is offering to let you teach a fraction of that curriculum, how about you take some initiative and go above and beyond to teach the actual grade level content of the grade you are being paid to teach.
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