Systemic Racism in US and Canada

[Oling_Roachinen]

Why did you feel the need to bring up the possibility she was a prostitute at all? Why?

You got mad when people "victim blamed" Black people in the other thread and called them racist, but your very first post in this thread was to suggest the possibility that a dead Indigenous woman who was taunted before her death was maybe a prostitute with a drug problem for 0 reason. And we all know if she was Black and this happened, you would lose your #### if someone came in and brought up the possibility she was a prostitute with many different fathers to her children. And you would be right to lose your ####. So maybe don't bring it up for Indigenous people.

I would say take your own advice and don't try and victim blame, but now I'm thinking you were just projecting your own racist thoughts onto others.

This is the systemic racism happening in Canada. If this was a white woman, other than it not happening to her at all, if it did, people would not be bringing up the possibility she was a prostitute with a drug problem. But no problem trying to draw that connection when it's an Indigenous person.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Well, we can't say you didn't try... :/

The guy "liked" a post full of lies attacking me, he clearly doesn't give a #### about civility, he's actively encouraging Olings slanderous and petty behavior.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Claiming slander when you came into this thread to suggest the possibility a dead Indigenous person was a prostitute with 0 evidence to back it up. There was no need to do it. It's not something you would have done if she was Black.

But man, it must suck to be called a racist when someone disagrees with you about something. At least this time it's pretty clear the racist is a racist.

[you&me]

This is going really well.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

7 children in 2020 isn't a reason to think prostitution is at least a possibility? I only know 1 person with 7 kids, a white woman, who was a prostitute.

Man you are going to hurt yourself reaching that far to try and paint me as a racist. At least grow a ####ing set and have the fortitude to say it rather than ##### footing around thinking you're clever.

I take it you dont hang out much with the religious, or many prostitutes as they generally demand the use of condoms and are also on birth control, in fact the last thing I would assume if I met a women with 7 kids is she was a prostitute, I would go with Islamic or Catholic long before I got there.

[GirlySports]

Wow the principal is an idiot. Try to reason with 10(?) year olds that way.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Why did you feel the need to bring up the possibility she was a prostitute at all? Why?

You got mad when people "victim blamed" Black people in the other thread and called them racist, but your very first post in this thread was to suggest the possibility that a dead Indigenous woman who was taunted before her death was maybe a prostitute with a drug problem for 0 reason. And we all know if she was Black and this happened, you would lose your #### if someone came in and brought up the possibility she was a prostitute with many different fathers to her children. And you would be right to lose your ####. So maybe don't bring it up for Indigenous people.

I would say take your own advice and don't try and victim blame, but now I'm thinking you were just projecting your own racist thoughts onto others.

This is the systemic racism happening in Canada. If this was a white woman, other than it not happening to her at all, if it did, people would not be bringing up the possibility she was a prostitute with a drug problem. But no problem trying to draw that connection when it's an Indigenous person.

I brought up the possibility of prostitution because 1) the staff was focused on her sex life, and 2) that is an exceptionally large family for 2020. Which made me think that perhaps they were slut shaming her, which I stated.

I literally gave you reasons why I suggested the possibility, so you can't claim "0 reason" when I literally gave you multiple reasons.

Also, you know to victim blame, you actually have to BLAME the victim for something, right? Even if she were a sex worker, those nurses were 100% in the wrong, which I clearly stated. I was simply saying their behavior might be based on a different type of terrible behavior like sex shaming, and not racially motivated. Suggesting possible ulterior motivations for ####ty behavior is not blaming the victim.

Again, I never blamed her for anything. In fact the only one of the two of us that seems to think being a prostitute is a bad thing, is you. People have to do what they have to do and shouldn't be looked down upon for it.

Yes, systemic racism is happening in Canada, and if you actually read posts rather than cherry picking things to try and manipulate things so you can get into your latest fight, you'd have seen the fact I have brought up multiple times that aboriginals are treated worse in Canada than anyone and how it needs to change.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I take it you dont hang out much with the religious, or many prostitutes as they generally demand the use of condoms and are also on birth control, in fact the last thing I would assume if I met a women with 7 kids is she was a prostitute, I would go with Islamic or Catholic long before I got there.

My suggestion was because their words sounded more like sex shaming than something race motivated. They are pieces of garbage that should go to prison either way

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I brought up the possibility of prostitution because 1) the staff was focused on her sex life, and 2) that is an exceptionally large family for 2020. Which made me think that perhaps they were slut shaming her, which I stated.

I literally gave you reasons why I suggested the possibility, so you can't claim "0 reason" when I literally gave you multiple reasons.

Also, you know to victim blame, you actually have to BLAME the victim for something, right? Even if she were a sex worker, those nurses were 100% in the wrong, which I clearly stated. I was simply saying their behavior might be based on a different type of terrible behavior like sex shaming, and not racially motivated. Suggesting possible ulterior motivations for ####ty behavior is not blaming the victim.

Again, I never blamed her for anything. In fact the only one of the two of us that seems to think being a prostitute is a bad thing, is you. People have to do what they have to do and shouldn't be looked down upon for it.

Yes, systemic racism is happening in Canada, and if you actually read posts rather than cherry picking things to try and manipulate things so you can get into your latest fight, you'd have seen the fact I have brought up multiple times that aboriginals are treated worse in Canada than anyone and how it needs to change.

Ok, so if do you think they would focus on a Muslim woman who had 7 kids and slut shame her? or was it maybe, just maybe, because they assumed any native woman with 7 kids is a slut or a prostitute, and making that assumption is, in and of itself, RACIST!!!

I agree with you, they did think she was a slut or a hooker, but that is the part that is racist.

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Ok, so if do you think they would focus on a Muslim woman who had 7 kids and slut shame her? or was it maybe, just maybe, because they assumed any native woman with 7 kids is a slut or a prostitute, and making that assumption is, in and of itself, RACIST!!!

With how our society treats each women when it comes to sex, I wouldn't put it past them to say it about any woman with 7 kids. Often women are treated just as poorly as people of color, sadly often by other women.

[BoLevi]

Does racism exist in Canada? - Yes

Does it meet any definition of "systemic" that is useful - No

[Crown Royal]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Does racism exist in Canada? - Yes

Does it meet any definition of "systemic" that is useful - No

How can anyone deny systemic racism when we have had #### like Residential Schools and the Starlight Tours here? Then there is the ridiculous number of aboriginal children in foster system and the seriously skewed numbers of aboriginals shot by the RCMP.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

I brought up the possibility of prostitution because...

Whatever, there's no point in discussing this with you. The idea that Indigenous are criminals with alcohol and drug addictions is an established stereotype in Canada that needs to be corrected, not perpetuated by the likes of you. There was just no reason to bring it up and then to try to justify it based on number of kids and the article not mentioning she had a husband is asinine.

The next time you hear of a Black man getting unjustly shot by the police and you get mad that the alt-right racists are suggesting he was a criminal without any reason, just remember that while you're absolute right to be mad at them, you did it yourself to Ms. Echaquan.

And I honestly think this about you:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

But the problem is most racists aren't going to be overtly racist, many won't even know they are being racist at all.

I'm not saying you're evil but you need to change your perspective on Indigenous people and their struggles too. They have negative stereotypes that are associated with them, you don't need to bring them up as a "possibility" just because. I mean, imagine if there was an article about a Black man and his child and I just brought up the possibility he was a deadbeat dad because it didn't explicitly say he was married. You would, rightfully, call me out for being a racist. So don't do the same to Indigenous people by suggesting the possibility that they fit your stereotypes of them.

I won't bother responding to you anymore. I think your hypocrisy about racial issues is on full display, and there's no reason to keep arguing with you.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

How can anyone deny systemic racism when we have had #### like Residential Schools and the Starlight Tours here? Then there is the ridiculous number of aboriginal children in foster system and the seriously skewed numbers of aboriginals shot by the RCMP.

Operative word is "had"...almost half a century ago. History is important and should be studied - bit it is also history.

As for the outcomes you mentioned. They are just that: outcomes. "System racism" is one possible explanation for those outcomes, but not the only explanation. I don't think it is the most likely explanation. Again: many people are racist against FN peoples, but I don't have good evidence to suggest the outcomes are the result of it being "systemic racism". History is littered with such improper logic, and regularly in a religious context.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Crown Royal

With how our society treats each women when it comes to sex, I wouldn't put it past them to say it about any woman with 7 kids. Often women are treated just as poorly as people of color, sadly often by other women.

Look I don't want to get into it on an issue this foolish, you know full well they wouldn't, seriously stop digging, we are talking about a gaggle of racists, it's perfectly ok to label them racists, they deserve nothing less.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Operative word is "had"...almost half a century ago. History is important and should be studied - bit it is also history.

Last residential school was closed in 1996. Not that 50 years ago would have been too long anyways.

I mean, it's part of the problem in this very case. She was speaking in the Atikamekw language, but unlike say German or Spanish, these nurses didn't recognize her language as anything but gibberish. And that's because our past government went a long way in trying to destroy languages like Atikamekw.

Also, the last documented Starlight tour happened in 2014 in Calgary in my opinion. Some will disagree but it was the same method, same rationale, same purpose, different disenfranchised group though.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Operative word is "had"...almost half a century ago. History is important and should be studied - bit it is also history.

As for the outcomes you mentioned. They are just that: outcomes. "System racism" is one possible explanation for those outcomes, but not the only explanation. I don't think it is the most likely explanation. Again: many people are racist against FN peoples, but I don't have good evidence to suggest the outcomes are the result of it being "systemic racism". History is littered with such improper logic, and regularly in a religious context.

I haven't fostered a single native kid who's parents weren't sent to residential school, not one in twenty years, the few that talked about it told of experiences so grim and hideous that other than the absence of a gas chamber at the end the holocaust is the only parallel I can think of, I dont know how good native parenting was before we took away everything they had, their culture, language, sense of pride and replaced it with nothing but shame and usually a childhood of physical and sexual abuse but after we had finished they was not a hope in hell most native adults would have much chance of being able to parent effectively.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Last residential school was closed in 1996. Not that 50 years ago would have been too long anyways.

I mean, it's part of the problem in this very case. She was speaking in the Atikamekw language, but unlike say German or Spanish, these nurses didn't recognize her language as anything but gibberish. And that's because our past government went a long way in trying to destroy languages like Atikamekw.

That's a bit disingenuous as the residential school program that we really reference was discontinued long before that. 50 years isn't a long period of time. But it's long enough to have it be "historical" rather the currently relevant as a data point that society is "systemically racist".

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I haven't fostered a single native kid who's parents weren't sent to residential school, not one in twenty years, the few that talked about it told of experiences so grim and hideous that other than the absence of a gas chamber at the end the holocaust is the only parallel I can think of, I dont know how good native parenting was before we took away everything they had, their culture, language, sense of pride and replaced it with nothing but shame and usually a childhood of physical and sexual abuse but after we had finished they was not a hope in hell most native adults would have much chance of being able to parent effectively.

Absolutely agree.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Does racism exist in Canada? - Yes

Does it meet any definition of "systemic" that is useful - No

Read the Indian Act and report back.