09-24-2020, 09:47 AM
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#7721
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Franchise Player
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Unless we're getting like two firsts then Philly can F off.
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Until the Flames make the Western Finals again, this signature shall remain frozen.
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09-24-2020, 09:51 AM
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#7722
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
What does this look like value wise? Is the value really “AP on a long term deal”? Or is it “slightly more than just picking him up as a UFA”? He’s still going to pick his team, so the list is short.
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Not sure.
If you are the Flames, you could trade for his rights and sign him to 7 years at $9 per. Total $63. Cost you a 4th for his right or more?)
If the Blues sign him to 8 x $8 and trade him, the Flames would definitely pay more to have the $1 million in cap space. Would the cost be a 2nd rounder?
And would AP be happy signing that deal?
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09-24-2020, 09:53 AM
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#7723
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaskal
Unless we're getting like two firsts then Philly can F off.
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Two late 1sts? Nah %^*+ that noise too.
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09-24-2020, 09:55 AM
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#7724
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischy13
Just the messenger here and twice removed from the very inside source claimed. Someone on the Philly team.
Rumour is it’s ghost and voracek coming for Johnny. I disputed this as much as what’s coming, Flames can’t take that kind of cap, especially if the desire is to sign Hall. Not only is Johnny signed to a better deal, he’s got to have more value than voracek. Right? Ghost comes with a significant amount of money too. So I can’t see it being legit. But the source seems reliable.
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Tell your friend it’s Johnny Gaudreau for Joel Embiid or we’re hanging up the phone.
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09-24-2020, 09:59 AM
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#7725
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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I'm not sure if Treliving is legitimately going to roll on holding on to Gaudreau and maybe losing him for nothing or if he's just playing the game not outright shopping him and only listening to offers to thwart the Kijiji offers a GM gets when shopping a player hard.
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09-24-2020, 10:04 AM
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#7726
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Scoring Winger
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Voracek and Ghost are 2 guys with negative trade value IMO. No WAY we take them for Johnny. I'm on the trade Johnny boat, but that's because I believe he has great value.
I don't see us and Philly as good trade partners though. I'd rather trade with NJD.
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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Niemo For This Useful Post:
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09-24-2020, 10:12 AM
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#7727
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CGY
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Frost+Ghost+1st+2nd is a deal that could work out for the Flames but it is not exciting. It allows them to move Hanifin in another deal for futures and provides a elc and expansion draft exempt player in Frost who steps into the lineup next year and a couple of picks to build the prospect pool.
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09-24-2020, 10:21 AM
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#7728
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctorfever
Not sure.
If you are the Flames, you could trade for his rights and sign him to 7 years at $9 per. Total $63. Cost you a 4th for his right or more?)
If the Blues sign him to 8 x $8 and trade him, the Flames would definitely pay more to have the $1 million in cap space. Would the cost be a 2nd rounder?
And would AP be happy signing that deal?
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Why would Pietrangelo agree to 8x8 instead of 7x9? Play another year for $1M after you have already earned $63M? I don't think so.
The sign and trade makes no sense for Pietrangelo and it makes no sense for the team signing him. Great deal for St Louis though.
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09-24-2020, 10:23 AM
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#7729
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Franchise Player
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What the hell happened to Ghost anyways? How did he become so cruddy?
Voracek is at least still a productive player. But Ghost? What happened to him?
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09-24-2020, 10:24 AM
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#7730
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischy13
Just the messenger here and twice removed from the very inside source claimed. Someone on the Philly team.
Rumour is it’s ghost and voracek coming for Johnny. I disputed this as much as what’s coming, Flames can’t take that kind of cap, especially if the desire is to sign Hall. Not only is Johnny signed to a better deal, he’s got to have more value than voracek. Right? Ghost comes with a significant amount of money too. So I can’t see it being legit. But the source seems reliable.
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I would suggest that you go ask your twice removed source why on earth they think the Flames would do that?
The Flames would be FAR better off giving Johnny to Philly for nothing, and keeping the $12.75M in cap space (which they could use to chase Pietrangelo and Hall - in other words, GOOD players)
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09-24-2020, 10:24 AM
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#7731
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Why would Pietrangelo agree to 8x8 instead of 7x9? Play another year for $1M after you have already earned $63M? I don't think so.
The sign and trade makes no sense for Pietrangelo and it makes no sense for the team signing him. Great deal for St Louis though.
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Sign and trades could happen for two reasons
- The player wants the 8th year
- The acquiring team wants the 8th year to lower the AAV
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09-24-2020, 10:29 AM
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#7732
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Scoring Winger
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Is your insider Jimmy Hayes?
He also says NYR 1st OV for Brady Tkachuk + 3rd OV.......... Melnyk isn't that dumb is he?
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09-24-2020, 10:30 AM
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#7733
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
What the hell happened to Ghost anyways? How did he become so cruddy?
Voracek is at least still a productive player. But Ghost? What happened to him?
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LOTS of young defenders come into the league with no pressure, no defensive responsibilities, and lots of confidence, and have a good year or two in that situation. Maata is an example off the top of my head.
Then the reality of the NHL sets in, and they are expected to improve (some do, some don't), expected to play defense (some can, some can't), and contribute on a daily basis, with a more complete workload.
I am not suggesting that they all fail, I am just saying that that first sheltered year, when it's all offensive situations with no responsibilities and no expectations, is a very difficult thing to build on.
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09-24-2020, 10:31 AM
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#7734
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Pent-up
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Plutanamo Bay.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Why would Pietrangelo agree to 8x8 instead of 7x9? Play another year for $1M after you have already earned $63M? I don't think so.
The sign and trade makes no sense for Pietrangelo and it makes no sense for the team signing him. Great deal for St Louis though.
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Why are you assuming the last year would be $1mil? I thought that option was removed.
Agreed that the scenario doesn’t help anyone but St. Louis. Just complicates things.
Edit: haha never mind. Math is a bitch.
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09-24-2020, 10:33 AM
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#7735
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Sign and trades could happen for two reasons
- The player wants the 8th year
- The acquiring team wants the 8th year to lower the AAV
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Again, you can't lower the AAV significantly any more. Maybe $500k tops.
But in order to do that, you are asking the player to take that 8th year for a significantly reduced salary (35% drop). It doesn't make a lot of sense for the player. And it isn't a significant savings for the team any more. And there is a (presumed) cost to compensate the other team
A
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09-24-2020, 10:34 AM
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#7736
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers
Why are you assuming the last year would be $1mil? I thought that option was removed.
Agreed that the scenario doesn’t help anyone but St. Louis. Just complicates things.
Edit: haha never mind. Math is a bitch.
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I am not. I was referring to the post that compared 7x9 with 8x8
If 7x9 is on the table, the player is not going to be interested in talking about an 8x8 offer
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The Following User Says Thank You to Enoch Root For This Useful Post:
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09-24-2020, 10:35 AM
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#7737
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjunkie
The lowest year can only be 35% lower than the highest year now...it's hard to shave much cap off of a similarly structured 7 year deal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch Root
Which means the most that the AAV can be pulled down by adding the 8th year is 5%, or $400k on $8M.
IMO, that is not worth the 8th year in and of itself. Never mind the fact that, in order to accommodate this, you would need to trade with St Louis.
The only reason to do this would be that the only way he would sign with your team would be if you got him the 8th year.
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Thanks for these, this was the exact point I was trying to make. A sign and trade makes the AP acquisition much less appealing imo.
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09-24-2020, 10:40 AM
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#7738
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Alberta
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The rumored Gaudreau trade is Horawful.
Trying to make it better for me:
Gaudreau+Hanifin for Voracek+Ghost+Myers+Patrick+1st 2020
Nah still hate it.
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09-24-2020, 10:44 AM
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#7739
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fischy13
Just the messenger here and twice removed from the very inside source claimed. Someone on the Philly team.
Rumour is it’s ghost and voracek coming for Johnny. I disputed this as much as what’s coming, Flames can’t take that kind of cap, especially if the desire is to sign Hall. Not only is Johnny signed to a better deal, he’s got to have more value than voracek. Right? Ghost comes with a significant amount of money too. So I can’t see it being legit. But the source seems reliable.
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Funny, listening to Loubo yesterday he mentioned that he expects to see a Carolina-type trade.
I.E. trade 1 good player to address a couple needs. In this case however, these players suck, so no idea why Tre would do that.
But Tre also likes to hire crap coaches so who knows.
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09-24-2020, 10:45 AM
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#7740
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Toronto, ON
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any trade with Philly would have to include Konecny or Couturier to even be close, right? unless it's Voracek and a lot of picks and prospects?
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*Disclaimer: I am a "glass half full" Flames fan.
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