Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[Toonage]

Stephen Brunt on 960 this morning also downplaying Francis' BS (without actually naming Francis)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Uh... somehow I don't think this is accurate.

Well maybe I am missing something but seems to me most of the additional value would be tied to the city in which they play.

The brand is worth little since everything will be re-branded.
Local media deals totally change when the team moves.
There are very few hard assets.
Little to no proprietary technology.
The subjective value is in the people and player contracts, but in a salary cap league that value seems really transitory.

[Flamenspiel]

Regarding Stephen Brunt, he is an example of how far apart the viewpoints are between the national media and the local sports media. These debates are quite normal and certainly the local media has a lot more at stake in this case. I mean who would even read Francis if the Flames left town?

I don't like the potshots at the mayor though, people like Francis are making it a personal issue when clearly the interests of all the stakeholders do not align.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by InglewoodFan

I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but does anyone else get the vibe Francis' Christmas bonus check was cut by CSEC?

You don't get a lakefront place at that swamp Sylvan Lake by being a B level columnist.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

I would think that most regular posters on here have a position on this topic and they like write to support their position and I don't see them as schills for one side or the other.

Do you see most regular posters on here getting paid to appear on Flames related multi-media and "moderating" Ken Kings whineathon luncheons at the Chamber of Commerce?

Francis = Schill.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by pylon

I just want to share one last thought on this, and I will go back to breaking out in cold sweats at the though of what I believe is the ultimate relocation of the only sports team I've ever been fanatical for. These words came from someone I was debating this whole thing with, and someone that can truly appreciate and understand the implications, and costs involved. This isn't some guy at an Orange Julius, it's a local businessman with a net worth probably around 100-150 million. Not NHL owner money, but he's the type of guy that rubs shoulders with people involved in this. Anyway, his logic really flipped me on this subject, and it is tough to argue with.

Not an exact quote, but pretty much the jist of it:


"Take away the principles involved in this entire debate. Take away the ego's, the chest beating, and the dick measuring. If the city were to even let the Flames move, without fronting them the entire cost of the building, it is still a net loss for the the city, and in short order. Potentially as little as 5 -10 years. Do I think the city should front 100%? No. And they do not have to. But even in that no-win scenario where it was the only option left, it's still a better long term scenario mathematically for the City to buy the team an arena and hand them the keys. The 'goodwill' and exposure the team brings the City is worth far more than the cost of an arena. Goodwill can be the most the most valuable asset of any business, and in the Flames case, the intangible goodwill enjoyed by the city, far exceeds what is enjoyed by the owners of the team, and by an excessively large margin. The biggest loser would be the City, not the team owners."

Tough to argue a guy that made a fortune that size. He's far more qualified to analyze than I am.

We must have pretty different views on this. His speech just reaffirmed to me that most rich people get there by privatizing the profits and socializing the risks. Just like the CSEC is trying to do.

I can't think of any other industry in Calgary that demands that the City buy them a new factory/warehouse/office building so they can make more profit.

[Flamenspiel]

Interesting post from Pylon, well if you do front the team 100%, you might as well buy the team and own it. That way you can at least get some of the money back.

[Manhattanboy]

Francis' article now prominently displayed on the front page of the National Post website.

I have received email from friends in Toronto on it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

We must have pretty different views on this. His speech just reaffirmed to me that most rich people get there by privatizing the profits and socializing the risks.

If you think that any rich people got that way by doing business the way it's done in professional sports, you're deeply mistaken.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

Regarding Stephen Brunt, he is an example of how far apart the viewpoints are between the national media and the local sports media. These debates are quite normal and certainly the local media has a lot more at stake in this case. I mean who would even read Francis if the Flames left town?

I don't like the potshots at the mayor though, people like Francis are making it a personal issue when clearly the interests of all the stakeholders do not align.

Why? Nenshi never wastes an opportunity in front of the microphone to twist the knife in Edwards back. There is a difference between having a political stance and being a smug jerk. People like to pile in Ken King and rightly so but Nenshi is his match as both are egotistical bullies. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed by everyone involved in this situation. No wonder they can't get anything accomplished with these two heading up discussions. Now this stuff is national it's just an embarrassment for the city.

[kevman]

Ah, the old we're moving the team trick.

I can't believe people still fall for this.

Calgary isn't a "small" market when it comes to the NHL.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by Canehdianman

His speech just reaffirmed to me that most rich people get there by privatizing the profits and socializing the risks.

Oh gimme a break.... Your comment just reaffirmed to me that most poor people have no clue.

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah - it's embarrassing by King/Edwards and the Flames organization.

As a fan who actually supports a new rink this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah - it's embarrassing by King/Edwards and the Flames organization.

As a fan who actually supports a new rink this leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'm confused as to what "it" is that you are referencing.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Why? Nenshi never wastes an opportunity in front of the microphone to twist the knife in Edwards back. There is a difference between having a political stance and being a smug jerk. People like to pile in Ken King and rightly so but Nenshi is his match as both are egotistical bullies. Quite frankly I'm embarrassed by everyone involved in this situation. No wonder they can't get anything accomplished with these two heading up discussions. Now this stuff is national it's just an embarrassment for the city.

I just think Nenshi is doing the job that he is paid to do, and was confirmed in that role by being re-elected. I don't care about his personality, he seems no different from a typical politician. We disagree on this issue, enough said.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I just think Nenshi is doing the job that he is paid to do, and was confirmed in that role by being re-elected. I done't care about his personality, he is no different from a typical polititian. We disagree on this issue, enough said.

And Francis is doing what he is paid to do, and the owners are looking out for their best interest as well. This will get done, I am not the slightest bit concerned.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by Loyal and True

Oh gimme a break.... Your comment just reaffirmed to me that most poor people have no clue.

We don't all have big bonuses from CSEC to rely on at Christmas time, Eric.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I'm confused as to what "it" is that you are referencing.

The posturing, the attempt to buy an election, acting as if they are smarter than the majority of Calgarians, etc...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by zukes

And Francis is doing what he is paid to do, and the owners are looking out for their best interest as well. This will get done, I am not the slightest bit concerned.

I've been mulling it over a fair bit and my attitude has shifted somewhat from being on Nenshi's side to siding a bit with the CSEC, I was talking with someone at my wife's Christmas Party and he made some really good points.

The big issue here, I think, is that the City are playing accounting games which needs to stop and we also have to understand that we are not Seattle.

The City's proposal has some warts, I think it simply wont work, but CSEC's proposal is unpalatable from a Citizen's perspective, but I think theres lots of room to meet in the middle.

But I do believe that we as Citizens are going to have to give something without getting anything tangible back. I know thats Nenshi's sticking point, and I dont know how they're going to get around it, but the City is going to have to kick in some cash that comes without strings. Once thats acknowledged it becomes a matter of 'how much?'

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I just think Nenshi is doing the job that he is paid to do, and was confirmed in that role by being re-elected. I don't care about his personality, he seems no different from a typical politician. We disagree on this issue, enough said.

He can do his job without out being an arrogant pr*ck. The way he is acting is no better than the way King is. There is a way to do business and both sides are going about it the wrong way.