COVID-19 Vaccine Talk, 2nd Dose

[Azure]

COVID zero is fanatical stupidity.

First of, we already know being vaccinated doesn't mean there won't be any cases. So to effectively blow up your country with an obsessed approach towards a policy that is meaningless is rather stupid.

Going by what some of the moron leaders in Australia are trying to implement, it is quite clear the power has gone to their head. They are bragging about their supposed high vaccine percentage, while at the same time trying to go for COVID zero. The way the police handle everything makes me rather proud to live in Canada, where regardless of our disdain towards our leaders, at least they don't pull the #### those idiots do at trying to enforce their ridiculous restrictions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by blankall

The virus doesn't survive very well on objects. New Zealand's only regular contact (non-personal) with other nations is unloading shipping containers. That's not so for Canada. We have all sorts of actual people traveling across the border for non-personal reasons every day.

Another factor to consider is that Canada already had far more cases of Covid than than New Zealand did by the time any sort of lockdowns came into effect.

There wasn't a single nation in Canada's climate zone that managed to get things down to zero. The closest was probably......Iceland, also an island state.

When you're pushing for zero, when it simply isn't possible, you're putting unnecessary restrictions into place and causing economic damage that doesn't need to happen. It's easy to think of the "economy" as some abstract place where greedy people make money. But the reality is that it's actually small businesses, family debt, life savings, etc.. that your affecting.

The Atlantic bubble was highly effective using a Covid zero approach and had less long and less severe lockdowns then the rest of Canada until vaccines were rolled out.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Atlantic bubble was highly effective using a Covid zero approach and had less long and less severe lockdowns then the rest of Canada until vaccines were rolled out.

Would making a bubble around the Atlantic provinces not count as a form of lockdown? That "bubble" was longer and more severe than any other lockdown in Canada. This includes my friends parents who had to wait almost 9 months to meet their grandson.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Would making a bubble around the Atlantic provinces not count as a form of lockdown? That "bubble" was longer and more severe than any other lockdown in Canada. This includes my friends parents who had to wait almost 9 months to meet their grandson.

The question I would like to answer is could Canada have gone with a Covid Zero Approach given how the US handled Covid.

So it would result in things like people in the US having significant quarantine requirements to visit relatives in Canada. I don’t think I would call it a lock down. It’s definitely a negative consequence of a Covid zero strategy that would have to be balanced with improved economic and health outcomes.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GGG

The question I would like to answer is could Canada have gone with a Covid Zero Approach given how the US handled Covid.

So it would result in things like people in the US having significant quarantine requirements to visit relatives in Canada. I don’t think I would call it a lock down. It’s definitely a negative consequence of a Covid zero strategy that would have to be balanced with improved economic and health outcomes.

I would disagree with you in that preventing outsiders from entering the maritime bubble would 100% be considered a lockdown. Think of a school lockdown, it is done because of an outside threat entering their space to ensure the health and wellbeing of their members. It was 100% a lockdown.

I also believe they were right in implementing a regional lockdown. I wish we had done the same.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I would disagree with you in that preventing outsiders from entering the maritime bubble would 100% be considered a lockdown. Think of a school lockdown, it is done because of an outside threat entering their space to ensure the health and wellbeing of their members. It was 100% a lockdown.

I also believe they were right in implementing a regional lockdown. I wish we had done the same.

It’s all semantics but your analogy actually demonstrates why the bubble isn’t a lockdown.

During a school lockdown each individual class is locked shut so the Atlantic bubble is more like a school where there are strict rules about who is allowed to enter and leave during the day but free movement within the school. The lockdown is more severe.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by GGG

It’s all semantics but your analogy actually demonstrates why the bubble isn’t a lockdown.

During a school lockdown each individual class is locked shut so the Atlantic bubble is more like a school where there are strict rules about who is allowed to enter and leave during the day but free movement within the school. The lockdown is more severe.

When you pervert it with a loose explanation like that, you could justify it. There are those who belong (students/maritimers) and those who don't (everyone else) and during a lockdown when there is an outside threat, you lock down. With your response, I don't know if you ever practiced a lock down drill in school so your understanding of my comparison may very well be flawed.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Atlantic bubble was highly effective using a Covid zero approach and had less long and less severe lockdowns then the rest of Canada until vaccines were rolled out.

I found their level of restrictions were mostly similar, and often stronger than what we had in the west. The benefits of the Atlantic bubble weren’t in reduced restrictions by and large, but from reduced cases and of course, deaths.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

When you pervert it with a loose explanation like that, you could justify it. There are those who belong (students/maritimers) and those who don't (everyone else) and during a lockdown when there is an outside threat, you lock down. With your response, I don't know if you ever practiced a lock down drill in school so your understanding of my comparison may very well be flawed.

CCSD during lockdowns locks students in their classrooms regardless of internal or external threat as I described above so no bubble.

https://webdocs.cssd.ab.ca/staff/ohs...eparedness.pdf

And during a lockdown students aren’t just having class like normal they are hiding below the window line.

It’s a bad analogy.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

I found their level of restrictions were mostly similar, and often stronger than what we had in the west. The benefits of the Atlantic bubble weren’t in reduced restrictions by and large, but from reduced cases and of course, deaths.

Christmas was open to 10 people. Theatres and Restaurants were open more.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by GGG

Christmas was open to 10 people. Theatres and Restaurants were open more.

Yes, your correct that the restrictions weren’t exactly the same or at the exact same times.

They also had significant stretches where they weren’t supposed to leave their health zone to travel to another health zone in the same province, something we never had here.

And even with massively smaller raw case numbers, they had similar (not exactly the same) restrictions on gatherings and socializing. And were obviously much more limited in visiting with family and friends from outside the Atlantic bubble, and often times from within the bubble if they got nervous of a neighbouring province. Something that either didn’t occur, or occurred much more rarely in the rest of the country.

[peter12]

The restrictions and lockdowns are bad. Very necessary but bad. We will be paying a price for them for many years to come.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Atlantic bubble was highly effective using a Covid zero approach and had less long and less severe lockdowns then the rest of Canada until vaccines were rolled out.

Sparsely populated maritime provinces with a fraction of the traffic had lesser infection rates. That's not a shocker in any way. Once again, the strategy was less likely to work in denser population areas with a constant inflow of cross-border traffic. Expecting the exact same strategy to work in St. John's as Toronto is absurd.

Even then, the numbers never got down to an absolute zero in some maritime provinces.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by peter12

The restrictions and lockdowns are bad. Very necessary but bad. We will be paying a price for them for many years to come.

Yup. I feel with the combination of the pandemic and the January 6th Capitol Building event, plus vaccine mandates and people losing jobs, we’re looking at an increase in domestic terrorism for the rest of my adult life.

[PepsiFree]

It’s not like anyone is arguing that lockdowns are inherently good. They are the best and most effective solution in a pandemic situation without vaccine coverage, but a pandemic situation is total #### to begin with, so you’re simply trying to handle a #### situation as best you can, of course it’s going to be significantly worse than “regular” non-pandemic life.

I find it odd people can’t wrap their head around that and act like lockdowns occurred in isolation (no pun intended).

[calgarygeologist]

Not that it matters to most folks now because so many people have already received two doses but NACI now says that based on further research and studies the optimal interval between doses is 8 weeks.

Luckily for me I am very close to that optimal mark with my doses being 7 weeks and 2 days apart.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Between 1 and 2, or 2 and 3?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Between 1 and 2, or 2 and 3?

I'm not entirely certain. I just saw that the optimal interval is stated as 8 weeks for Pfizer and Moderna. So I guess between your first and second dose of either of those two it is weeks 8.

[getbak]

Here's the full report: https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/ph...accines-en.pdf


The recommended optimal interval between first and second doses is 8 weeks. For boosters, where recommended, the interval between the second and third shots should be a minimum of six months.

[opendoor]

Related to boosters, Pfizer released phase 3 trial data from boosters involving about 10K people from their original trials. They randomized the participants and gave half a 3rd dose and half a placebo. The efficacy for the booster came it at 95.6% after an average followup of about 2.5 months.

The important caveat with that efficacy number is that it's 95.6% vs. the group with 2 doses, not an unvaccinated group. So the protection vs. the unvaccinated is even higher (probably 97-99% depending on the level of protection the 2 dose + placebo had).

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-re...l-data-showing

Presumably that protection will wane too, but it does bode well for being able to protect vulnerable people from getting infected at all if they take boosters.