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Old 10-15-2021, 08:59 AM   #481
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Had an in person ďencounterĒ last night, good grief. So Iím part of the host committee for the 2022 Brier which is coming to Lethbridge in March. We had our first in person meeting last night and we were going around the room introducing ourselves and saying what our roles were going to be. Well, we get to Barb and she is hold a paperÖ. Starts off saying how exciting of an event it is going to be and pulls up her sheet of paper and goes off on how the vaccines are ineffective, the per tests are bull****, if we support the vaccine passports we also support apartheid, residential schools and on and and on. The Chair opens the door so she could see herself out, on her way she mentioned the she wants her $100 fee back because curling Canada are a bunch of commies. So if you want to be in charge of program sales, thereís an opportunity now open for you.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:11 AM   #482
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I've seen some letter from a Dr Patricia Lee as the latest anti-vax tool getting shared around social media by the unvaccinated.

Anyone know anything about the legitimacy of this letter, is this person even an actual doctor?
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:28 AM   #483
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https://www.sirillp.com/wp-content/u...tricia-Lee.pdf

Never heard of her, but that's likely the letter.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:34 AM   #484
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Doing a quick google search on Dr. Patricia Lee and I have found doctors of that same name in Edmonton, Ontario and several in California. Not sure if all those in California are the same person or not, but none of them that I could see are ICU doctors. Pediatrician and Gynecologist are titles attached more than once.

This Dr. Patricia Lee, ICU doctor could exist but I gave up looking.
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:45 AM   #485
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There are five Dr. Patricia Lee's registered with the Medical Board of California (https://search.dca.ca.gov/?BD=800&TP=8002), and one of them is a graduate of USC (as noted in the letter).

A search for Dr. Patricia Wenshin Lee points to this link, which states that her specialites include Critical Care Medicine and General Surgery: https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/patr...a0e1c-overview

FWIW...
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Old 10-16-2021, 11:43 AM   #486
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Guy my sister knows was announcing a week ago that he had COVID and ivermectin cured him. I tried to explain about correlation not equalling causation, but to no avail. Now he's had a relapse and is in the hospital, but of course they have to mention he's the only one in the COVID unit.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:03 PM   #487
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Guy my sister knows was announcing a week ago that he had COVID and ivermectin cured him. I tried to explain about correlation not equalling causation, but to no avail. Now he's had a relapse and is in the hospital, but of course they have to mention he's the only one in the COVID unit.

The ironic thing I always found with the people with regards to Ivermectin is how people are routing for or against specific medication. It's become the political and tribal aspect to it on both sides.

I will admit that I have followed the ivermectin story from well over a year ago when a group of high level ICU Dr's were using it for their patients as part of an overall treatment plan. The group isn't part of some quack group of Dr's but well known within their specialties.

In the last several months the way Ivermectin has been portrayed by some as some sort of basic "horse dewormer" in a negative light as if everything that this drug has achieved isn't valid. We also have people like you have described above and people I know who are convinced the animal version of this drug is a legit Covid cure in a tube, it's laughable.

When properly explained to people that Ivermectin is a well known, safe, WHO essential medication that has specific uses and is FDA/Health Canada approved and a Noble Peace Prize winner they think differently.

When explained to the people who believe Ivermectin is a cure in a tube, that the very group of well respected clinicians who have ivermectin as part of an OVERALL treatment protocol, they have a stupid look on their face. Right or wrong, the "Ivermectin Dr's" have a long list of their protocol therapeutics. This isn't some random medication and your home free, there is a scientific and medical aspect to the treatment plan that needs to be followed.

Either way, we are living in interesting times for sure.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:13 PM   #488
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The ironic thing I always found with the people with regards to Ivermectin is how people are routing for or against specific medication. It's become the political and tribal aspect to it on both sides.

I will admit that I have followed the ivermectin story from well over a year ago when a group of high level ICU Dr's were using it for their patients as part of an overall treatment plan. The group isn't part of some quack group of Dr's but well known within their specialties.

In the last several months the way Ivermectin has been portrayed by some as some sort of basic "horse dewormer" in a negative light as if everything that this drug has achieved isn't valid. We also have people like you have described above and people I know who are convinced the animal version of this drug is a legit Covid cure in a tube, it's laughable.

When properly explained to people that Ivermectin is a well known, safe, WHO essential medication that has specific uses and is FDA/Health Canada approved and a Noble Peace Prize winner they think differently.

When explained to the people who believe Ivermectin is a cure in a tube, that the very group of well respected clinicians who have ivermectin as part of an OVERALL treatment protocol, they have a stupid look on their face. Right or wrong, the "Ivermectin Dr's" have a long list of their protocol therapeutics. This isn't some random medication and your home free, there is a scientific and medical aspect to the treatment plan that needs to be followed.

Either way, we are living in interesting times for sure.
The thing is that the people who call it a horse de-wormer are already well aware of its use in humans and its award winning origins. The people who are buying it off the shelf at their local UFA because some doctor from BC made up a story about treating patients in Rimbey are those that need protection. They will latch onto anything that anyone credible may have once mentioned as a potential therapy as long as it isn't a vaccine.

The sheer insanity that people will demand a literal experimental drug like Ivermectin (for treating COVID-19) while simultaneously stomping their feet about an "experimental jab" that has shown profoundly positive clinical and real world results is soul deadening.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:21 PM   #489
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I think everyone is rooting for a therapeutic to be found. No one is rooting against it because of political affiliation. Everyone wants covid to be over but you have to prove it through trials.

The issue is people hailing ivermectin as a magic pill that the government is trying hide to keep covid going. Which makes no sense, why not cover up the vaccine?

Merck, the maker has come out and said there is no scientific evidence that has proven effectiveness against covid. On top of that, they have actually come out with a pill that helps with fighting covid. They have handed in all data and are waiting approval.

If ivermectin was it, why come out with a different drug?
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:33 PM   #490
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I think everyone is rooting for a therapeutic to be found. No one is rooting against it because of political affiliation. Everyone wants covid to be over but you have to prove it through trials.

The issue is people hailing ivermectin as a magic pill that the government is trying hide to keep covid going. Which makes no sense, why not cover up the vaccine?

Merck, the maker has come out and said there is no scientific evidence that has proven effectiveness against covid. On top of that, they have actually come out with a pill that helps with fighting covid. They have handed in all data and are waiting approval.

If ivermectin was it, why come out with a different drug?

Not to derail the thread or anything but Merck has given away the patent for Ivermectin and so, the drug costs very very little, only a few dollars a month.

The new therapeutic that that they are developing will not cost a few dollars a month, it will cost hundreds if not thousands a month.

Right or wrong, the way "Big Pharma" will profit from Covid is huge and financials are playing a big big role in some of the decisions being made.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:39 PM   #491
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All the more reason for governments to approve it no? The cost of covid is in the billions (trillions?). I doubt they pass on it because big pharma wants a bigger piece.
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Old 10-16-2021, 05:37 PM   #492
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When explained to the people who believe Ivermectin is a cure in a tube, that the very group of well respected clinicians who have ivermectin as part of an OVERALL treatment protocol, they have a stupid look on their face. Right or wrong, the "Ivermectin Dr's" have a long list of their protocol therapeutics. This isn't some random medication and your home free, there is a scientific and medical aspect to the treatment plan that needs to be followed.
But there isn't currently a scientific basis for using Ivermectin as part of a treatment plan, any more than there was for Hydroxychloroquine. The studies that have shown any effect are normally small and poor quality, while larger well-run studies have shown little to no positive effect. Some non-quack/non-antivax doctors will still prescribe it because it has a long safety record and won't do any harm, but there's no real evidence of its efficacy for treating or preventing COVID.
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Old 10-16-2021, 05:55 PM   #493
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'These are high level icu docs, well respected clinicians, scientific and medical aspect to the treatment plan'.

Sounds like someone's spent a little too much time on Facebook.

There has been no peer reviewed proof that ivermectin works for covid.

https://www.drugs.com/medical-answer...virus-3535912/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w
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Old 10-16-2021, 06:56 PM   #494
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https://twitter.com/user/status/1392839989281574913

At this stage, this is the only response I am gonna offer anti-vaxxers
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:25 PM   #495
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'These are high level icu docs, well respected clinicians, scientific and medical aspect to the treatment plan'.

Sounds like someone's spent a little too much time on Facebook.

There has been no peer reviewed proof that ivermectin works for covid.

https://www.drugs.com/medical-answer...virus-3535912/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w

I actually don't have a facebook account or any social media, in my opinion it's just pure trash on there regardless.

As for Ivermectin, I am not suggesting it does work or doesn't work. Over a year ago I started following this group of Dr's as they were being shown on reputable news sites and offering advice that resonated well before vaccines were available.

As for the Dr's, they do appear to have some high level ICU experience, and have been featured in mainstream media and invited to testify before the US Congress on Covid.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/abou...cc-physicians/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/healt...rnd/index.html

The point I have tried to highlight to people on both sides is we have one side who think Ivermectin is some sort of snake oil, hot trash level medication and "dewormer" We also have the other side who claim it's curing Covid in a tube.

When presented with facts about Ivermectin and the opinion what these Dr's believe to be effective, your average person has a stupid look on their face. People than asking why is the media "trashing this drug" and than other's wondering why the FLCC Alliance's treatment protocol also includes a whole host of other medication, as if their dream that Ivermectin being the "cure" doesn't ring true.

Last edited by curves2000; 10-16-2021 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:44 AM   #496
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I actually don't have a facebook account or any social media, in my opinion it's just pure trash on there regardless.

As for Ivermectin, I am not suggesting it does work or doesn't work. Over a year ago I started following this group of Dr's as they were being shown on reputable news sites and offering advice that resonated well before vaccines were available.

As for the Dr's, they do appear to have some high level ICU experience, and have been featured in mainstream media and invited to testify before the US Congress on Covid.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/abou...cc-physicians/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/healt...rnd/index.html

The point I have tried to highlight to people on both sides is we have one side who think Ivermectin is some sort of snake oil, hot trash level medication and "dewormer" We also have the other side who claim it's curing Covid in a tube.

When presented with facts about Ivermectin and the opinion what these Dr's believe to be effective, your average person has a stupid look on their face. People than asking why is the media "trashing this drug" and than other's wondering why the FLCC Alliance's treatment protocol also includes a whole host of other medication, as if their dream that Ivermectin being the "cure" doesn't ring true.
Have you actually taken a look at their massaged charts?

https://covid19criticalcare.com/iver...nd-ivermectin/

There is no standardization of comparatives, they are deliberately massaged (with no equal ratio between charts) to show correlations, and they use Google Trends data to push causation.

This is bad data. This is bad science.

Extremely reminiscent of https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
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Old 10-17-2021, 07:00 AM   #497
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Yeah, that FLCCC site is constantly foisted upon anyone who will listen by my homeopath, chakra-cleansing, f-ckwit quack of an aunt who has spent much of her time in the last decade decrying “big pharma” and any sort of western medicine while peddling her own bullish-ttery, and also wouldn’t stop harping on my T2 diabetic father about how aspartame causes cancer (narrator: it doesn’t) while simultaneously imploring him to drink full sugar pop instead. She also refuses to get vaccinated for anything, is old and fat enough (along with her equally moronic husband) to probably have a poor outcome from COVID-19 should she catch it, and recently announced her full-fledged support for the PPC. She’s the sort of person where, should you find yourself sharing an opinion with her, you are almost immediately skeptical of your own opinion and start fact-checking yourself just to make sure.

This reads like a caricature, I’m sorry to say it is not.
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Old 10-17-2021, 07:26 AM   #498
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What I donít get is if invermectin is so great, why not do some studies that demonstrate the effectiveness.

Itís literally the basis of scientific theory, and is the approach everybody else is doing to find Covid treatments.

The argument that invermectin is a legitimate pharmaceutical can be used for thousands of other drugs. Itís a meaningless argument.

Ive noticed that the same people who were crowing about hydroxychloroquine are now crowing about invermectin. What is baffling is these people (those that I know) have no background in medicine, pharmacology or science. How can they be so certain invermectin works?

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I actually don't have a facebook account or any social media, in my opinion it's just pure trash on there regardless.

As for Ivermectin, I am not suggesting it does work or doesn't work. Over a year ago I started following this group of Dr's as they were being shown on reputable news sites and offering advice that resonated well before vaccines were available.

As for the Dr's, they do appear to have some high level ICU experience, and have been featured in mainstream media and invited to testify before the US Congress on Covid.

https://covid19criticalcare.com/abou...cc-physicians/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/healt...rnd/index.html

The point I have tried to highlight to people on both sides is we have one side who think Ivermectin is some sort of snake oil, hot trash level medication and "dewormer" We also have the other side who claim it's curing Covid in a tube.

When presented with facts about Ivermectin and the opinion what these Dr's believe to be effective, your average person has a stupid look on their face. People than asking why is the media "trashing this drug" and than other's wondering why the FLCC Alliance's treatment protocol also includes a whole host of other medication, as if their dream that Ivermectin being the "cure" doesn't ring true.
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Old 10-17-2021, 11:10 AM   #499
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What I donít get is if invermectin is so great, why not do some studies that demonstrate the effectiveness.
There are lots of studies going on. The weird part, is many early studies that looked more promising than Ivermectin, but still weren't strong enough to garner resources for further study. No idea why the loons are latching onto it so hard.

I'd found a better summary before that I can't locate anymore, but this is pretty comprehensive: https://www.covid-trials.org/
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Old 10-17-2021, 06:37 PM   #500
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What I donít get is if invermectin is so great, why not do some studies that demonstrate the effectiveness.

Itís literally the basis of scientific theory, and is the approach everybody else is doing to find Covid treatments.

The argument that invermectin is a legitimate pharmaceutical can be used for thousands of other drugs. Itís a meaningless argument.

Ive noticed that the same people who were crowing about hydroxychloroquine are now crowing about invermectin. What is baffling is these people (those that I know) have no background in medicine, pharmacology or science. How can they be so certain invermectin works?
Good article on studies here
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