Andrei Kuzmenko: Powerplay Tsar

[traptor]

No rush with Kuz.

See how it pans out next year and what the offers are.

No way I sign him for longer then 2 years given where we're at and our other contracts.

Bot sure why people want to sign more old forwards long term.
People realize we're in 25th and have missed playoffs for two years in a row right?

[FBI]

People realize Kuzmenko might be good though right?
Let’s say he turns into a perennial 40 goal scorer for the next 4 years. I don’t care how old he is, we still need 40 goal scorers.

[Leondros]

Get some picks for him next year, keep him on the PP and pump his numbers. Profit.

[ozzy]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Kuzmenko is the real deal

I thought that was James Neal

[DeluxeMoustache]

I think a contract around 4 years gives the best potential opportunity for the franchise to maximize the asset

If he lights it up next year, he’s a UFA and his justification for contract demands the Flames won’t want to meet will be stronger, and he is then a rental for the acquiring team if he is traded

If they see a high skill player that they can sign to a good deal now (due to negotiating position - some good will on the side of the player and also some uncertainty after the end of his Vancouver experience), I think there is a good argument it makes sense now

That if course is based on what they are seeing and projecting

The skill level is unique. This isn’t contract year Andrew Mangiapane we are talking about

[FlamesAreOne]

What was our PP% prior and with Kuzy?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I think a contract around 4 years gives the best potential opportunity for the franchise to maximize the asset

If he lights it up next year, he’s a UFA and his justification for contract demands the Flames won’t want to meet will be stronger, and he is then a rental for the acquiring team if he is traded

If they see a high skill player that they can sign to a good deal now (due to negotiating position - some good will on the side of the player and also some uncertainty after the end of his Vancouver experience), I think there is a good argument it makes sense now

That if course is based on what they are seeing and projecting

The skill level is unique. This isn’t contract year Andrew Mangiapane we are talking about

I think the return on a productive Kuzmenko will do more for the rebuild than Kuzmenko himself.

I'm not a trade everyone guy, but he's a supplementary player with skill not currently supplementing anyone as the core pieces aren't here yet.

Not the end of the world to sign him and then if he steps back a bit next year as they have the cap space if the term isn't too long.

But then hopefully the deal doesn't have a NMC so they can still trade the contract.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

But like. The dude will be 29 when his current contract is up. What business do the Flames have offering a 29-year-old a long-term contract when they don't currently have anything resembling a core?

This is a clear-cut pump-and-dump situation. The Flames aren't a full Kuzmenko season away from the Cup, or even making the playoffs. They need to be bottoming out.

There is a lot of wiggle room between long-term contract and pump-and-dump. The OP suggested 4 years, I think if you can get a two-year deal, that's optimal, but anything between 2 and 4 years is fine.

I agree with Bingo that you don't have to do it in the summer - we have too small of a sample size on him. Let's see what he looks like for the first 40 games of next season, and then assess.

But as FBI and others have said, there might be a really good player there - no need to immediately hit the pump-and-dump button every time someone plays well. His addition to the PP has made it dangerous for the first time in 2 years or more. We ask/expect STHs to cough up large sums of money every year, to support a team that we want to have here at home, so let's at least give them some entertainment once in a while.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

What was our PP% prior and with Kuzy?

Pre-Kuzmenko: 13.8%, 29th OA
With Kuzmenko: 23.9%, 11th OA

[Enoch Root]

Here's another way to look at Kuzmenko: we can probably sign him for similar money to Mangiapane. Then trade Mangiapane.

One body, same price, more interesting player. Doesn't stand int he way of the rebuild.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Pre-Kuzmenko: 13.8%, 29th OA
With Kuzmenko: 23.9%, 11th OA

To put this another way...

Pre-Kuzmenko: 18 PP goals in 49 games

With Kuzmenko: 20 PP goals in 28 games

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

There is a lot of wiggle room between long-term contract and pump-and-dump. The OP suggested 4 years, I think if you can get a two-year deal, that's optimal, but anything between 2 and 4 years is fine.

I agree with Bingo that you don't have to do it in the summer - we have too small of a sample size on him. Let's see what he looks like for the first 40 games of next season, and then assess.

But as FBI and others have said, there might be a really good player there - no need to immediately hit the pump-and-dump button every time someone plays well. His addition to the PP has made it dangerous for the first time in 2 years or more. We ask/expect STHs to cough up large sums of money every year, to support a team that we want to have here at home, so let's at least give them some entertainment once in a while.

I agree and will make a statement that is a bit more blunt

Remember, plan A wasn’t to fail to sign good players and then trade them at the deadline as rentals

What Conroy said was that if a key player wasn’t going to sign, he would be traded, he would not be lost for nothing

It doesn’t seem that nuance landed with the armchair GMs saying they should pump and dump

A skill player on a good contract has way more value than a pending UFA

[Icantwhisper]

The problem with Kuzmenko is his 200 foot game, his Flames stats pro rated over a season are 64 points and a -34. Doesn't matter I suppose on a rebuilding team but that's the reason Vancouver got rid of him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

The problem with Kuzmenko is his 200 foot game, his Flames stats pro rated over a season are 64 points and a -34. Doesn't matter I suppose on a rebuilding team but that's the reason Vancouver got rid of him.

If you want to use +- as an argument, here are some numbers since Kuzy joined:

Weegar: -8
Backlund: -8
Kuzmenko: -10
Sharangovich: -11
Andersson: -13
Huberdeau: -13

It's a team stat.

His expected goals against per 60 were posted above and were just fine

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by FBI

People realize Kuzmenko might be good though right?
Let’s say he turns into a perennial 40 goal scorer for the next 4 years. I don’t care how old he is, we still need 40 goal scorers.

You also need some skill and a reason to watch...will also boost other players numbers, potentially guys who will be traded at some point

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

The problem with Kuzmenko is his 200 foot game, his Flames stats pro rated over a season are 64 points and a -34. Doesn't matter I suppose on a rebuilding team but that's the reason Vancouver got rid of him.

Yeah they got rid of him in a trade they will regret for years to come

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

The problem with Kuzmenko is his 200 foot game, his Flames stats pro rated over a season are 64 points and a -34. Doesn't matter I suppose on a rebuilding team but that's the reason Vancouver got rid of him.

Exactly what is wrong with that for a team who aims to lose a bunch of games and secure a high pick?

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Exactly what is wrong with that for a team who aims to lose a bunch of games and secure a high pick?

As per my post "Doesn't matter I suppose on a rebuilding team but that's the reason Vancouver got rid of him."

But if you plan on flipping him to a contender next year, those teams will look at his 200 ft game and how it fits into their system when deciding the return they are willing to part with.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Yeah they got rid of him in a trade they will regret for years to come

Agreed, but giving away Kuzmenko isn't the part they will regret

[konradical]

If Kuzmenko willing to sign a mid term deal with a decent cap hit i dont see why we need to trade him. I assume we are trading Mang and Marky at some point next season.

He is fun to watch and can help the younger guys learn from him whether that is the powerplay or shooting.

We dont need to trade every single player for the sake of trading them