Alberta Politics Thread v2

[Muta]

The NDP, along with various municipalities and post-secondary institutions, have helped keep my industry decently busy during the last four years. While I'm not a fan of a lot of their policies, not all of the NDP's spending decisions has been detrimental to everybody.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Muta

The NDP, along with various municipalities and post-secondary institutions, have helped keep my industry decently busy during the last four years. While I'm not a fan of a lot of their policies, not all of the NDP's spending decisions has been detrimental to everybody.

Particularly the public sector "industry" and AUPE.

The increase in this area has been and is asinine.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Particularly the public sector "industry" and AUPE.

The increase in this area has been and is asinine.

I'm in private sector, so it isn't just public jobs that are benefitting.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Muta

I'm in private sector, so it isn't just public jobs that are benefitting.

That's great for you. Im sure anecdotally there are plenty of such stories.

It's abysmal for Alberta that those numbers are even within the realm of reality though.

Worst 4 years in the history of the province on the fiscal front when its all said and done im guessing.

But hey...everybody got long lasting LED lightbulbs....right? (Wonder what that bill is at now....300 million?)

[Muta]

Originally Posted by transplant99

That's great for you. Im sure anecdotally there are plenty of such stories.

It's abysmal for Alberta that those numbers are even within the realm of reality though.

Worst 4 years in the history of the province on the fiscal front when its all said and done im guessing.

But hey...everybody got long lasting LED lightbulbs....right? (Wonder what that bill is at now....300 million?)

Well, the AEC industries employ hundreds of thousands of people in this province. They do matter too.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by spotthefan

So many are wanting “restraint” in the budget but I doubt it’s actually what people want in the end.

Show me where to “restrain” spending. What should be lost? Cut?


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5 year wage freeze on all public sector postitions until wages are behind both BC and Ontario. This amounts to a 10% spending cut on 50% of government expenses.

Eliminate “Green” funding for Carbon tax dollars and put that money where it should be in general revenue.

The city of Calgary through their efficiency programs found about 5% in process improvements so the province should be able to do the same.

So if you add that up you get about 2.5 billion in wage freezes, 1 billion in Carbon tax, 2.5 billion in efficiency you get around 6 billion without cutting services.

Then you could restore spending per capita to 2015 plus inflation levels but that would take some cuts to enhanced services by the NDP. The above doesn’t even account for GDP growth which would balance GDP faster.

The NDP fixed the revenue problem. They created a spending problem.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The NDP blew cash on useless pet projects much in the same way the old PC governments had. The difference being they also raised taxes, bungled royalty reviews, shot themselves in the foot with electrical generation. Thank Jesus titty####ing christ we have $15 min wage so you can have half of it taxed in one way or another before you see a dime. Oh and they did all of this while the rest of Canada is bending Alberta over and taking us as their fiscal bitch.

The only time Notley showed she had any backbone was her ever short lived wine ban, whoop dee do! It would be really nice to have a premier with some stones to put a boot to the throat of BC, Montreal, and anyone else who has unjustly hampered Alberta (and consequently Canadas) economy.

The NDP has been a great facilitator of the pussification of this province and its embarrassing.

I’d love a party in power and a premier who are capable but the UCP aren’t it. I don’t trust their leader. I don’t think I have anyone I can confidently vote for and a friend is even running in my riding.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

5 year wage freeze on all public sector postitions until wages are behind both BC and Ontario. This amounts to a 10% spending cut on 50% of government expenses.

Alberta public sector employees aren’t making 20% more than their BC and Ontario counterparts. Not sure how you arrived at the 10% savings figure as a result of waiting for parity over a 5 year term. You may have also forgotten to factor in that in any event the “savings” each year would be reduced if public workers in those other provinces see increases to their wages. I also think it will be a hard sell to our public sector workers since private sector workers in Alberta also generally earn more than their private sector counterparts in BC and Ontario, but that’s a whole other can or worms.

Eliminate “Green” funding for Carbon tax dollars and put that money where it should be in general revenue.

I don’t disagree with reallocating those funds to general revenues, although they already appear to be doing so(green line)

The city of Calgary through their efficiency programs found about 5% in process improvements so the province should be able to do the same.

The difference in the types of services offered at the provincial and municipal levels makes this a bit of an apples to oranges comparison but any government should be looking for these types of efficiencies.

So if you add that up you get about 2.5 billion in wage freezes, 1 billion in Carbon tax, 2.5 billion in efficiency you get around 6 billion without cutting services.

I think you’re double dipping in your calculations here by applying the 5% in efficiencies to the overall budget. To my knowledge when the city made changes to their processes to provide more efficient services they didn’t reduce their budgets for labour. While it is good to get more bang for your buck when it comes to public services, you wouldn’t be saving any money on labour from a budget balancing perspective without decreasing the actual spending.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by GGG

5 year wage freeze on all public sector postitions until wages are behind both BC and Ontario. This amounts to a 10% spending cut on 50% of government expenses.

To unilaterally freeze public sector wages would be an invite to court challenges (and likely losses) for by passing collective bargaining. Also, most public sector unions have already gone through 5 years of 0% increase.

Originally Posted by GGG

Eliminate “Green” funding for Carbon tax dollars and put that money where it should be in general revenue.

It’s funny because all people complained about when the carbon levy was introduced was that it would end up in general revenue and not actual projects. Sustainable development is in transit and efficiency, not suburbs and highways.

Originally Posted by GGG

The city of Calgary through their efficiency programs found about 5% in process improvements so the province should be able to do the same.

And with it went programs like youth employment which hurt the very group of people struggling with employment right now....18-24 year olds.

Originally Posted by GGG

So if you add that up you get about 2.5 billion in wage freezes, 1 billion in Carbon tax, 2.5 billion in efficiency you get around 6 billion without cutting services.

Finding efficiencies in programs of any financial significance almost always ends up with cuts to staff, because that is our greatest cost. But I wonder what value it is to try and solve a budget issue when so many people are struggling with employment by causing more unemployment.

Minus the energy sector and infrastructure almost all programs by the NDP have been population+inflation spending. Not doing this has very real effects whether you believe it is front line or not.

For example a $1 million dollar cut to the CBE may not be teachers or assistants. But it won’t be secretaries or directors either. It will be psychologists, specialists (SLPs or OTs) and other learning specialists whose job it is to ensure we are improving the very things people complain about (literacy & numeracy).

The last time population and inflation wasn’t going to be funded, school divisions faced cutting janitorial staff and maintenance.

If you cut 1 million from AHS it may not be RNs or Doctors, but it could be LPNs, janitorial, sanitation.

I think some have forgotten what the 2015 election was about. Yes it was about ridding ourselves of the PC dynasty, but if that was all we would have a Wildrose premier now. We don’t. Albertans made the clear choice to prioritize our services.

That doesn’t mean the NDP have fixed the budget problem, but they certainly didn’t make it worse. If anything they have done the exact same that was done for a decade before.



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[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I’d love a party in power and a premier who are capable but the UCP aren’t it. I don’t trust their leader. I don’t think I have anyone I can confidently vote for and a friend is even running in my riding.

Which riding?


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[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I’d love a party in power and a premier who are capable but the UCP aren’t it. I don’t trust their leader. I don’t think I have anyone I can confidently vote for and a friend is even running in my riding.

The UCP certainly arent a knight in shining armor, but my priorities are getting the economy back on track, above all else. Having all of these wonderful needle programs, money being spent on GSAs and free light bulbs wont matter much once our financial floor collapses under NDP bloat and all those programs go away anyways.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The UCP certainly arent a knight in shining armor, but my priorities are getting the economy back on track, above all else. Having all of these wonderful needle programs, money being spent on GSAs and free light bulbs wont matter much once our financial floor collapses under NDP bloat and all those programs go away anyways.

Money on GSAs!?

Our financial floor is the best in the country despite losing a main revenue source.


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[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The UCP certainly arent a knight in shining armor, but my priorities are getting the economy back on track, above all else. Having all of these wonderful needle programs, money being spent on GSAs and free light bulbs wont matter much once our financial floor collapses under NDP bloat and all those programs go away anyways.

Wait...what?

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Wait...what?

Yep, I dont swe any need for money spent on GSA's. My friends (straight and gay) in junior high and high school supported each other. I dont understand why public money has to be spent on friendship and allies. Be friends with who you want to be and take care of them like you would anyone else, gay or straight, but dont waste tax dollars on it.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by GGG

You are a partisan that is part of the problem.

The world is not two groups of leftist and conservatives. Albertans (who the majority don’t fall into either camp) would be better off without this bull####.

I'm not nearly as partisan as you think I am. I had the federal NDP remove me from their call and donation list as I can't support the current leadership and their anti pipeline and anti Alberta views. I wont' be voting NDP or Libera, I'll either vote Conservative while holding my nose or not vote. I would bet my house that a number of posters here would couldn't return that same sentiment.

[spotthefan]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I'm not nearly as partisan as you think I am. I had the federal NDP remove me from their call and donation list as I can't support the current leadership and their anti pipeline and anti Alberta views. I wont' be voting NDP or Libera, I'll either vote Conservative while holding my nose or not vote. I would bet my house that a number of posters here would couldn't return that same sentiment.

Yeah Singh’s Leadership is horrendous and his views are troublesome.

And the Liberals are ‘fake’

I’ll vote for the best candidate in my riding


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[Slava]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Yep, I dont swe any need for money spent on GSA's. My friends (straight and gay) in junior high and high school supported each other. I dont understand why public money has to be spent on friendship and allies. Be friends with who you want to be and take care of them like you would anyone else, gay or straight, but dont waste tax dollars on it.

Well no ones spending money here. But this is exactly my dilemma because I strongly support things like the GSAs and not having kids be outed to their parents.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well no ones spending money here. But this is exactly my dilemma because I strongly support things like the GSAs and not having kids be outed to their parents.

The idea of one is something I support as well, everyone should feel included and safe. My disagreement comes with the fact that funding and political time and resources are being spent on something that can be done without government involvement

[Slava]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The idea of one is something I support as well, everyone should feel included and safe. My disagreement comes with the fact that funding and political time and resources are being spent on something that can be done without government involvement

I want that to be the case, but reality is something different. There are still politicians who don’t support them to begin with, or want parents to be notified when their kids join them. I don’t think politicians need to be involved in this sort of thing, but here we are.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by spotthefan

To unilaterally freeze public sector wages would be an invite to court challenges (and likely losses) for by passing collective bargaining. Also, most public sector unions have already gone through 5 years of 0% increase.

let them Strike. Use the bargaining process to extract concessions. Legislate essential services back to work. If a prolonged strike does occurs the elimination of defined benefit plans goes on the table. Many in the private sector are also running 5 zeros.

Originally Posted by spotthefan

It’s funny because all people complained about when the carbon levy was introduced was that it would end up in general revenue and not actual projects. Sustainable development is in transit and efficiency, not suburbs and highways.

.

Not me, the only sensible place for revenue to go is general. All projects should compete with eachother for revenue. If in the absense of a Carbon tax a project doesn’t get funded then the project isn’t worth doing. The amount of Carbon tax for behaviour hange is not the same as the amount of projects being funded. I agree that sustainable transit funding should be a priority as funds permit. That has nothing to do with the presence or absense of a Carbon tax.

Originally Posted by spotthefan

Finding efficiencies in programs of any financial significance almost always ends up with cuts to staff, because that is our greatest cost. But I wonder what value it is to try and solve a budget issue when so many people are struggling with employment by causing more unemployment.

.

Based on your economic theory we should hire people to do nothing so they aren’t unemployed.

Originally Posted by spotthefan

Minus the energy sector and infrastructure almost all programs by the NDP have been population+inflation spending. Not doing this has very real effects whether you believe it is front line or not.

Source please? 43 - 55 billion, please break down the parts you want to exclude. Also when you freeze salary spending should only increase at 1/2 of inflation because Salary spending has been fixed and is about half the cost..

Originally Posted by spotthefan

For example a $1 million dollar cut to the CBE may not be teachers or assistants. But it won’t be secretaries or directors either. It will be psychologists, specialists (SLPs or OTs) and other learning specialists whose job it is to ensure we are improving the very things people complain about (literacy & numeracy).

The last time population and inflation wasn’t going to be funded, school divisions faced cutting janitorial staff and maintenance.

If you cut 1 million from AHS it may not be RNs or Doctors, but it could be LPNs, janitorial, sanitation.

I think some have forgotten what the 2015 election was about. Yes it was about ridding ourselves of the PC dynasty, but if that was all we would have a Wildrose premier now. We don’t. Albertans made the clear choice to prioritize our services.

That doesn’t mean the NDP have fixed the budget problem, but they certainly didn’t make it worse. If anything they have done the exact same that was done for a decade before.

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I haven’t really advocated cuts. I look at they city of Calgary operational efficiencies found and do not see a loss of services. This needs to be replicated.

The NDP has made the situation worse budget wise. Spending went from 43 billion to 55 billion. We can discuss what the benefits and costs of it are but from a balance sheet perspective they certainly made it worse. Also just as Bad as Redford is not acceptable.


I given them credit in doing the heavy lifting on the revenue side but their spending is not acceptable.