Special Teams 2018-2019

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by New Era

Not angry. Just really frustrated that our fans don’t know anything about the players in question and cast them in roles they have not played in, nor have proven capable of playing. At the same time they dismiss our own players who have proven calable in these roles. New toy syndrome strikes again, and I just thought our fan base was better than that.

Damn. It really sucks having a management team that knows nothing about the players in question either

[Ashes]

Can't say enough good things about the Flames offseason so far, starting with the coaching changes (more specifically a proven PP coach like Ward coming in and Cameron going out!).
The player that excites me the most about the PP possibilities this season though is Hanafin.

I think this guy is will be our Powerplay QB on the 1st unit and I'm hoping he takes a lot of the pressure off Johnny having to go end to end after about 7 drop passes that everyone sees coming!

PP1

Tkachuk - Gaudreau - Monahan - Neal
Hanafin

PP2

Lindholm - Backlund - Czarnik,
Giordano - Stone

PK1

Backlund - Ryan
Giordano - Hamonic

PK2

Frolik - Jankowski
Brodie - Stone

[AustinL_NHL]

Tkachuk
Gaudreau-Monahan-Neal
Giordano

Lindholm
Bennett-Ryan-Czarnik
Hanifin

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

I get the whole shiny new toy thing, but can we recognize the players we acquired and what they are? Ryan does not kill penalties. Czarnik is a 13th forward. Neither are going to be special teams mainstays. If they are, Peters is. Or deploying his talent properly, or the Flames are way out of the mix for the post season.

Originally Posted by New Era

Come on, Czarnik isn’t #### until he proves he can play with the current team. It bugs the crap out of me when coaches make comments like this when they haven’t even had a camp with their team. How can a coach know where a player fits without first seeing the rest of the team and understanding team dynamics? Czarnik is a 25 year old with a whopping 3 PP points in his 59 game career, yet he’s going to be a mainstay on the PP? I mean, WTF? I’ve never seen so much hype over a guy with 5 goals and 21 career points. Could it possibly be that Peters is just talking the guy up?

Originally Posted by New Era

Yeah, because I guarantee you that when the Panthers went after Marchessault they had him pencilled in on the PP and thought they had a 30 goal scorer on their hands! That’s some some Oiler level hype and justification. I thought we were better than that and held our team to a higher standard.

Originally Posted by New Era

So tell me, what does Czarnik have over a player like Mangiapane?

Czarnik (25) 2017-18

AHL - 64GP, 25G, 44A, 69P
NHL - 10GP, 4A, 4P

Mangiapane (22)

AHL - 39GP, 21G, 25A, 46P
NHL - 10GP, 0P

Not a helluva lot. Mangiapane is a 13th forward, so I see no reason why Czarnik is some huge addition that is going to change the fortunes of the team. Seems the shiny new toy is being over rated.

Originally Posted by New Era

Not angry. Just really frustrated that our fans don’t know anything about the players in question and cast them in roles they have not played in, nor have proven capable of playing. At the same time they dismiss our own players who have proven calable in these roles. New toy syndrome strikes again, and I just thought our fan base was better than that.

I don't see what's so hard to understand.

The Flames (Treliving and Peters) went out of their way to get this guy to sign here because they believe he has the ability to break out like other small guys have in the past and end up as a huge value signing. He's going to get every opportunity to do that as long as he earns it.

Unless he falls flat on his face, expect him to get time on one of the PP units and also significant time in our top 9 forward group.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I don't see what's so hard to understand.

The Flames (Treliving and Peters) went out of their way to get this guy to sign here because they believe he has the ability to break out like other small guys have in the past and end up as a huge value signing. He's going to get every opportunity to do that as long as he earns it.

Unless he falls flat on his face, expect him to get time on one of the PP units and also significant time in our top 9 forward group.

I don't understand this take. They went out of the way to sign this guy or that guy so the player is guaranteed this and that.



No guarantees. He is no different that Foo was last year. And Tre also went out of his way to sign him.



Czarnik will get some looks in different roles, but expecting him to be a fixture on PP is way too optimistic.



Let's wait for him to make the team first.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't understand this take. They went out of the way to sign this guy or that guy so the player is guaranteed this and that.



No guarantees. He is no different that Foo was last year. And Tre also went out of his way to sign him.



Czarnik will get some looks in different roles, but expecting him to be a fixture on PP is way too optimistic.



Let's wait for him to make the team first.

I used phrases like "as long as he earns it" and "unless he falls flat on his face"

You used the word "guarantee" twice.

I didn't.

Maybe that's why you didn't understand my take?

[bax]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't understand this take. They went out of the way to sign this guy or that guy so the player is guaranteed this and that.



No guarantees. He is no different that Foo was last year. And Tre also went out of his way to sign him.



Czarnik will get some looks in different roles, but expecting him to be a fixture on PP is way too optimistic.



Let's wait for him to make the team first.

Czarnik is very different than Foo, their situations are not the same at all. Foo had zero pro experience, while Czarnik has 3 pro seasons under his belt. Foo was signing an ELC, while Czarnik signed a UFA contract for 1.25 million.

There are no guarantees that Czarnik will break out and become a fixture on the PP or become the next Marchessault or Gourde or whatever, but the Flames have made it clear (as did 23 other NHL teams) that there is a believe if put in the right situation this guy could put up some numbers in the NHL.

Peters has spoken to it, as has Treliving. Part of their pitch to him is that they are going to play him in offensive situations and give him some power play time. You can bet he will be given opportunities there. Whether he sticks or not is a different story, but this isn't some random minor leaguer fighting to make the team. The powerplay is this guy's specialty.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I used phrases like "as long as he earns it" and "unless he falls flat on his face"

You used the word "guarantee" twice.

I didn't.

Maybe that's why you didn't understand my take?

Sorry. I should have clarified. I was responding about the general statements here that since Tre "went out of his way to get him" he was owed something or was seen as good enough to be impactful.

Both statements are nonsense or optimistic at the least.



And saying he will play unless he fails is not a constructive statement at all. He will play unless he is not good enough? Ok...thanks for clarifying?


Here is my statement.



If he earns it and is good enough, he will make the team and play a contributing role.



When I say "he" I don't just mean Czarnik. It's every prospect we have. No pedestal for Czarnik from me.

[Red]

Originally Posted by bax

Czarnik is very different than Foo, their situations are not the same at all. Foo had zero pro experience, while Czarnik has 3 pro seasons under his belt. Foo was signing an ELC, while Czarnik signed a UFA contract for 1.25 million.

There are no guarantees that Czarnik will break out and become a fixture on the PP or become the next Marchessault or Gourde or whatever, but the Flames have made it clear (as did 23 other NHL teams) that there is a believe if put in the right situation this guy could put up some numbers in the NHL.

Peters has spoken to it, as has Treliving. Part of their pitch to him is that they are going to play him in offensive situations and give him some power play time. You can bet he will be given opportunities there. Whether he sticks or not is a different story, but this isn't some random minor leaguer fighting to make the team. The powerplay is this guy's specialty.

In the pre-season.



And although I am excited to see what he can do, there is a reason why he has 5 goals in the NHL at the age of 25.

So I elect to be on the cautious side and not pencil him in like others here. Just because he had interest doesn't mean he is some special player.

Every draft pick every year has several teams interested. Really don't get the point you guys keep making. Tre signed him so he must be gold. Tre signed many other players too and some have been pure junk.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Red

In the pre-season.



And although I am excited to see what he can do, there is a reason why he has 5 goals in the NHL at the age of 25.

So I elect to be on the cautious side and not pencil him in like others here. Just because he had interest doesn't mean he is some special player.

Every draft pick every year has several teams interested. Really don't get the point you guys keep making. Tre signed him so he must be gold. Tre signed many other players too and some have been pure junk.

Did Peter's mention he was only talking about pre-season? If so, I didn't hear that.

Have you checked out his usage when he was with Boston? He played minimal time with 4th liners, very similar to how we used Mangiapane when he was up last year. The reason teams think he can pop is because Boston never put him in a role to succeed.

Nobody is saying "Tre signed him so he must be gold". The point were making is that he will be given an opportunity, especially at 1.25 million. The chances of Czarnik starting the season in the AHL are pretty much 0.

No one here is saying he is a sure thing, people are penciling him in on the second powerplay because that is likely where he gets his opportunity. It's the whole reason the Flames pursued him. That's the point we are making.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Red

Sorry. I should have clarified. I was responding about the general statements here that since Tre "went out of his way to get him" he was owed something or was seen as good enough to be impactful.

Both statements are nonsense or optimistic at the least.



And saying he will play unless he fails is not a constructive statement at all. He will play unless he is not good enough? Ok...thanks for clarifying?


Here is my statement.



If he earns it and is good enough, he will make the team and play a contributing role.



When I say "he" I don't just mean Czarnik. It's every prospect we have. No pedestal for Czarnik from me.

Peters said he spent a month prior to the courting period watching tape on the kid.

He and Treliving got on a plane and flew 2/3 of the way across the continent to court him face to face and offer him $2.5 million over two years.

He is going to get a legit opportunity here to prove he's capable of producing offense at the NHL level.

They didn't do all that to stick him in the AHL, the pressbox or the 4th line with limited ice time and no powerplay time.

As long as he earns it with a good work ethic he's going to get the opportunity.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Red

Here is my statement.



If he earns it and is good enough, he will make the team and play a contributing role.

Ok...thanks for clarifying?

[Red]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Ok...thanks for clarifying?

Go away troll.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Peters said he spent a month prior to the courting period watching tape on the kid.

He and Treliving got on a plane and flew 2/3 of the way across the continent to court him face to face and offer him $2.5 million over two years.

He is going to get a legit opportunity here to prove he's capable of producing offense at the NHL level.

They didn't do all that to stick him in the AHL, the pressbox or the 4th line with limited ice time and no powerplay time.

As long as he earns it with a good work ethic he's going to get the opportunity.

I don't disagree with any of that. I took an issue with the statements that this guy was a given because he was on a one-way, Tre liked him, Peters talked him up etc. All that is not that different from any other young signing.



Is he going to get a few games to show what he's got? Sure.

Should we pencil him in as a PP guy for the start of the season and further? Not yet.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't disagree with any of that. I took an issue with the statements that this guy was a given because he was on a one-way, Tre liked him, Peters talked him up etc. All that is not that different from any other young signing.



Is he going to get a few games to show what he's got? Sure.

Should we pencil him in as a PP guy for the start of the season and further? Not yet.

I don't think anybody is saying this though

[Red]

Originally Posted by bax

I don't think anybody is saying this though

What do you mean?



Tre went out if his way to sign him.

They went 2/3 across the continents to meet.
Peters said this.
Tre said that.



This is all we have heard so far to justify this contract. There is nothing else really. He is old-ish, small and unaccomplished at the NHL level. If Tre and Peters didnt say anything, would he be penciled in the lineup? No, he'd be expected to go to the AHL.



At least with Gaudreau we had some body of work before we gave him a spot on the team. Hobby Baker, Team USA etc. He was quite a bit more accomplished and proven.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Red

What do you mean?



Tre went out if his way to sign him.

They went 2/3 across the continents to meet.
Peters said this.
Tre said that.



This is all we have heard so far to justify this contract. There is nothing else really. He is old-ish, small and unaccomplished at the NHL level. If Tre and Peters didnt say anything, would he be penciled in the lineup? No, he'd be expected to go to the AHL.



At least with Gaudreau we had some body of work. Hobby Baker, Team USA etc. He was quite accomplished and proven.

Czarnik was sought fairly heavily around the league. You can assume he was well scouted. And others thought he could be in the NHL as well.

https://www.sportsbreak.com/nhl/nhl-...-on-the-cheap/

[bax]

Originally Posted by Red

What do you mean?



Tre went out if his way to sign him.

They went 2/3 across the continents to meet.
Peters said this.
Tre said that.



This is all we have heard so far to justify this contract. There is nothing else really. He is old-ish, small and unaccomplished at the NHL level. If Tre and Peters didnt say anything, would he be penciled in the lineup? No, he'd be expected to go to the AHL.



At least with Gaudreau we had some body of work before we gave him a spot on the team. Hobby Baker, Team USA etc. He was quite a bit more accomplished and proven.

Okay, this is becoming useless. Nobody here thinks Czarnik is the next Gaudreau. All people are saying is that he will be given an opportunity here offensively. That is the given. Whether he succeeds or not is up in the air.

[Red]

Bax, go back and read the post from Austin_something. He seemed upset that people questioned Czarnik's place on the team. That's how this started. Some of us are more cautious.



So maybe not Johnny level. But it is apparent here that this guy is seen as a pretty much sure fire NHLer. And I just ask why?



Answers so far?
Tre and Peters said so.

And other teams wanted him.


And no. People are not saying that he will just be given an opportunity. They are saying that no one flies across the continent to sign a guy who will be sent to the AHL. Consensus is that Tre signed an NHLer.


I'd be very happy if that was the case. But for now I see a 25 year old with 5G in his NHL career.

[Red]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Peters already basically guaranteed that Czarnik will get a ton of PP time, if not be a mainstay. Also, Czarnik is considered by Peters to be an "elite power-play player" and by the way Czarnik talked when being interviewed after signing, it seems Treliving and Peters basically told him he's going to be playing top 9 minutes and at minimum be an every day roster player.

Also guessing they didn't travel all the way down to meet with him in person and sign him to a 2-year/$2.5M contract just for him to be a 13th forward.

So....

This is what I am talking about. Lofty expectations.