A Game of Thrones **BOOKS OFF LIMITS** v2

[Thor]

I'm not in any way offended by all the anger, but like so much of the internet its all about piling on and over-reacting.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm not in any way offended by all the anger, but like so much of the internet its all about piling on and over-reacting.

Most people I know who hated or didn't like the last season never said anything about it, because they knew it'd just upset the fanboys and girls.

I made the mistake of dissing the second to last episode on FB, and it was a bad idea. The extent to which people were upset was just ridiculous.

The way the hardcore fans have piled on those who didn't like it has honestly kind of soured me on the whole series for a while.

From where I'm standing those people kind of suck. I could easily defend the last season of the series with better arguments than any of them have made if I felt like it, but almost none of them bother. It's just name-calling (although mostly in roundabout ways, at least).

But yeah. The last episode was bad. Not as bad as "The Bells" which I though was the low point of the whole series, but still really, really bad. (Which is a shame because technically it was superb. It's just no amount of technical competence can save you from bad writing.)

[Locke]

Has there ever been a more over-analyzed show in TV history?

The Walking Dead must be close, but with Game of Thrones it was off the charts!

And ultimately, I think one of the the major sticking points between groups of lovers and haters of the show is the classic discussion of:

"The Books Were Better."

So you had fans of the original material who had been invested in the world and characters for years and then all of a sudden it becomes enormously popular the world over and then people become aggrieved because:

"We were here first" and "We liked it before it was popular."

Well. Cool. I dont think thats being contested but it isnt really relevant either.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ that reminds me about the joke about the hipster who went skating and drowned.

Because he skated on the ice before it was cool.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I don’t think the books have anything to do with the lack of popularity of seasons 7 or 8.

Almost all books are superior to their adaptations with very, very few exceptions.

Although there was a small segment of hardcore book readers who disliked the show from the beginning, I think the general sentiment from book readers was that the show was an amazing adaptation for the first 6 seasons (with a couple of exceptions like the sand snakes).

Absolutely nothing about the criticism I’ve read for the show in the last two years has anything to do with some lame ass hipster BS.

I also don’t think the heavy analysis into the show has anything to do with the disappointment. People weren’t mad because they were so deep in analysis that they had created theories that weren’t paid off (remember when people were pissed that True Detective didn’t live up to all the insane yellow king reddit hype?).

People were angry because threads that absolutely did exist and were analyzed because they were real, were eventually abandoned in favour of a sloppy, rushed ending.

There’s no secret to why the show is taking ####. It’s the simplest explanation in this case. People thought it sucked because, for the most part, it did.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Also worth mentioning that a ton of book readers thought books 4 and 5 were somewhere between mediocre and awful. In many ways seasons 4/5/6 improved the books for a lot of people.

I liked both Feast and Dance though so what do I know.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

One more thing. Sorry for the triple post.

Remember way back in season 2 with the house of the undying when I got chased by the lynch mob for saying “if the house of the undying is this cool, just wait for the sand snakes” because it was considered a spoiler?

Yeah, I jinxed the hell out of that one.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm not in any way offended by all the anger, but like so much of the internet its all about piling on and over-reacting.

Season 8 "ruined" Game of Thrones
Female Ghostbusters "ruined" Ghostbusters
Star Wars prequels "ruined" original trilogy
Star Wars sequels "ruined" prequel and original trilogy....

It's all pretty much in the same vein of piling on.

On IG there are account holders devoting hours of their time to making complaint memes picking at every minute detail of logic they clearly thought about for some time, despite not enjoying it. Man, what a waste of life. Move on!

[JohnnyB]

Happiness is largely the extent to which reality meets expectations. As expectations rise, it's hard to maintain happiness.

[GGG]

What’s interesting is that season 6 was really good and beyond the books. So the argument that they couldn’t do it without Martin doesn’t quite work.

Really they just made 1 poor creative choice when they didn’t do 10 episode final seasons and rushed everything. The amount of changes required to fix the flaws in the season aren’t many. They basically all amount to giving the characters more time and motivation for their choices.

It also demonstrated why the books aren’t written yet. It’s very difficult to get to the satisfying ending without invoking fantasy cliches.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GGG

What’s interesting is that season 6 was really good and beyond the books. So the argument that they couldn’t do it without Martin doesn’t quite work.

Really they just made 1 poor creative choice when they didn’t do 10 episode final seasons and rushed everything. The amount of changes required to fix the flaws in the season aren’t many. They basically all amount to giving the characters more time and motivation for their choices.

It also demonstrated why the books aren’t written yet. It’s very difficult to get to the satisfying ending without invoking fantasy cliches.

Season 6 was excellent to me, I really liked the religious fanatics story line. It was really the last season where we saw the underlying political manipulation of the game of thrones that made the series so exceptional and different from a Dungeon's and Dragons quest adventure that it became in 7 and 8.

[Mr.Coffee]

They rushed it. Plain and simple as day.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

They rushed it. Plain and simple as day.

I dont think anyone is disputing that it was rushed, they more or less said so in the Behind the Scenes on the final season.

People are just upset at 'why' they rushed it when they had seemingly infinite resources available too them, some actors probably wanted to continue, some probably didnt, same with crew and production team, but theres one caveat to those 'seemingly infinite resources.'

Time.

They already used a ton of it. The show has been on for 10 years and even as they mentioned in the Behind the Scenes special was that they were effectively making feature films for television on a television schedule and (more or less) television budget.

Thats hard!

And obviously Benioff and Weiss had the most incentive to wrap this up quickly to collect their Disney paycheques and start work on an iconic film franchise.

So yeah, they rushed it. I still really liked it, I thought it was great TV and I like the post-episode discussion, but yeah, they rushed it and as fans who want more we're intrinsically going to be critical of that.

[AltaGuy]

My opinion is that they ruined a great series. I disliked season 6, and season 7 went off the rails, and then - stupid me - I thought they could at least provide some good closure to the series in 8. I hoped the rushing and plot holes were necessary - or at least forgivable - to get to somewhere interesting.

It was terrible. Seasons 1-4 were great tv, up there with the best, and even seasons 5-7 had some good moments. Season 8 turned a great show into schlock.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Season 6 was excellent to me, I really liked the religious fanatics story line. It was really the last season where we saw the underlying political manipulation of the game of thrones that made the series so exceptional and different from a Dungeon's and Dragons quest adventure that it became in 7 and 8.

It's fascinating to watch the game pieces being endlessly re-arranged, but at some point they need to get pushed into the middle and battle it out...it would just be nice to have more time to explore the new realities of the aftermath of it all.


In hindsite, it would have been better if S7 culminated in the fight with the Night King, leaving a full season 8 for the humans to sort out the aftermath. Viserion becoming an Ice Dragon was a holy#### moment (and fun thing to speculate on between seasons) that didn't really pay off. There was never an easy/logical way of getting Daeny and her dragons beyond the wall, but it could have been done a lot more efficiently and less silly than how it happened. Instead of the 'Bad Plan' of convincing Cercei to join the fight against the dead, it should have only been a matter of convincing Daeny that it was an inevitable battle to be fought, and by doing so first she would also be advancing towards her ultimate goal by earning the loyalty of Westeros kingdom(s).

Imagine S8E1, 2, & 3 as the ending to season 7. Could have been so much more time to develop the endgame (stuff like Daeny burning the Tully's could have happened in S8 instead).

The death of Rhaegal should have been a far more monumental event that helped shape the conclusion. Did we ever really see Daenarys mourn either loss (off the top of my head it seemed more like how she'd feel if a car she loved got written off in an accident than one of her 'children')?

Perhaps our introduction to the Golden Company could have been a dastardly ambush of an injured Rhaegal. Then we get several episodes of Jon and her advisors restraining Daeny's impulse to rule the ashes as the rest of the gamepieces are actually dealt with (picking sides).

The omnipotence of Drogon in the Bells episode didn't add up, but it could have if we felt like both he and Daeny were simmering their fire/rage for long enough that it eventually boiled over.

All of the ingredients were there, they just added some ingredients too soon and left a lot until the very end so they came out undercooked.

[FireGilbert]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Happiness is largely the extent to which reality meets expectations. As expectations rise, it's hard to maintain happiness.

I agree and compare with TripAdvisor hotel reviews. 3 star hotels sometimes get better reviews than 5 star hotels just based on expectations. If your 3 star experience is better than expected you will give it a good review while if your 5 star experience has even one little thing go wrong your expectations have not been met and you will give it a bad review.

The last season of GoT is like a five star hotel that did a renovation, changed their menu, and had some staff turnover. Not all the long time patrons are happy but it is still the best place to stay in town.

Compare with say Big Bang Theory. The show was mediocre so its mediocre ending didn't really piss many people off.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

After season 7 my expectations for season 8 were pretty low and the show still fell well short.

So what does that say about how bad the writing was?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

After season 7 my expectations for season 8 were pretty low and the show still fell well short.

So what does that say about how bad the writing was?

Says the guy that thought Shazam was nearly flawless.

Your house sigil would be a disgruntled cartoon man getting impaled in the rear. Of the house Butthurt.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Says the guy that thought Shazam was nearly flawless.

Your house sigil would be a disgruntled cartoon man getting impaled in the rear. Of the house Butthurt.

Lol wut?

Shazam is a silly superhero movie for kids that I thought was extremely fun. We may as well be comparing GoT to the 90s XMen cartoon.

But I mean, yeah, if you’re that angry about it, go for it. It’s just really, really stupid.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

After season 7 my expectations for season 8 were pretty low and the show still fell well short.

So what does that say about how bad the writing was?

Umm... nothing?