New study puts a price tag on train or bus between Banff and Calgary

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by 1991 Canadian

Unless I am missing something, this train solves the least pressing issue for congestion in Banff, the highway drive between Calgary and Banff. Even at the peak of summer I find the drive relatively free moving.

The bigger issues are a lack of parking, overwhelming amount of people and a lack of tourism infrastructure in Banff and area. A train doesn’t solve any of these issues. It will not displace individual vehicle traffic, it will only displace bus tour traffic between Calgary and Banff.

The problem is the congestion will just be shifted to the Banff train station. Even if you displace all the bus traffic between Banff and Calgary, you now have to get all these people from Banff to the various sites. You also need to get all these people from YYC to the Calgary train station (downtown?).

Don’t get wrong, if there is private money willing to front most of this project, I am all for it. If the tickets are cheap enough, I might even be tempted to use it. I just don’t see the value in it.

Pretty much this. What is Parks viewpoint on this? Last year they were already calling for a cap on the number of people allowed to enter, as it's becoming difficult for the park to recuperate from the number of people. Enabling faster and easier access will only increase the numbers. Sure it may make sense for Alberta government to subsidize given the additional economic gains, but will Parks block it?

[Fuzz]

I think Parks is far more concerned with vehicle traffic than people. I'm sure they would support it.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think Parks is far more concerned with vehicle traffic than people. I'm sure they would support it.

Last year the concern was the number of people at the attractions themselves.

[Fuzz]

If you have the majority of tourists using buses though, you can more easily control where they go. So say 20 buses a day to Moraine Lake. You still have the car traffic, but if most tourists don't have a car, you can limit the people on a busy day.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

FWIW I wonder if autonomous vehicles should be factored into these projections. Why spend billions on a train when self driving vehicles may make the demand for trains drop?

[Bunk]

Toll the TCH - then the highway itself isn't purely subsidized by taxpayers and would motivate some to take a train, so less congestion. Help pay for the train and in-park circulation with that revenue. Win-win!

Of course, there would be mutiny probably, but that's how you could make a more functional, less congested multi-modal transportation system not so reliant on private vehicles.

[you&me]

The ultimate irony:

As I glance up from CP, there's a headline on the bottom of the local news "Train derailment in Banff shuts down the TCH".

(Edit - that's what the headline reads - more accurately, it seems like it's the 1A that's closed due to the derailment)

[Ozy_Flame]

Did a quick search for Edmonton to Jasper (round trip), and it was about $200 on VIA Rail. I would imagine that the Calgary-Banff line would run a bit more frequently (e.g. daily), and would be a shorter ride. Volume might be higher too because it's a busier corridor.

Would you take the train for a round trip of, say, $100?

[Flamenspiel]

What about expanding the existing Rocky Mountaineer train service to Banff and Lake Louise? That seems like a much smaller job. Do the really have to re-invent the wheel?

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

What about expanding the existing Rocky Mountaineer train service to Banff and Lake Louise? That seems like a much smaller job. Do the really have to re-invent the wheel?

That train serves a completely different market than what is proposed here. Frequency is much less which makes it simpler to work the schedule into CP and CN's network. One of the major issues right now is the CP mainline is pretty much at capacity with freight trains and there is really no room to add passenger service at any kind of frequency.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Did a quick search for Edmonton to Jasper (round trip), and it was about $200 on VIA Rail. I would imagine that the Calgary-Banff line would run a bit more frequently (e.g. daily), and would be a shorter ride. Volume might be higher too because it's a busier corridor.

Would you take the train for a round trip of, say, $100?

No. Why? Because as a local I have essentially zero reason to just go to Banff for the day. I would go to the mountains to hike/ski/bike or whatever then maybe stop in Banff for lunch or dinner or something.

Still need a car to get anywhere that isn't totally inundated with people.

Oh not to mention it would be significantly cheaper and faster to drive.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Did a quick search for Edmonton to Jasper (round trip), and it was about $200 on VIA Rail. I would imagine that the Calgary-Banff line would run a bit more frequently (e.g. daily), and would be a shorter ride. Volume might be higher too because it's a busier corridor.

Would you take the train for a round trip of, say, $100?

That would be too much for a family to go to Banff. It only makes sense for people who are planning on staying there for some time. I can't imagine spending $400 to visit Banff by train with the wife and kids. That might even be too much for tourists flying into Calgary and going to Banff.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Yeah if the Go bus is $10 bucks one way, why would anyone take the train at that cost? All this shows is that the train is not viable, I really don't understand the interest from private investment, unless there is a juicy subsidy tacked on by the Feds. A better bus system might work.

[Ozy_Flame]

The ticket should be much cheaper than I suggested, but who knows how much it will be in the end. If the VIA Rail ticket is any price point to start from, then it is likely more trouble than it's worth.

Personally I'd love to see a fast passenger train to Lake Louise, with drop off points at the ski hills you want to visit (e.g. Nakiska, Norquay, Sunshine, Lake Louise), and with the hills operating appropriate shuttle service. I'd take that in a heartbeat, last thing I want to do is drive home after a good ski day (and possibly in crap weather too).

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The ticket should be much cheaper than I suggested, but who knows how much it will be in the end. If the VIA Rail ticket is any price point to start from, then it is likely more trouble than it's worth.

Personally I'd love to see a fast passenger train to Lake Louise, with drop off points at the ski hills you want to visit (e.g. Nakiska, Norquay, Sunshine, Lake Louise), and with the hills operating appropriate shuttle service. I'd take that in a heartbeat, last thing I want to do is drive home after a good ski day (and possibly in crap weather too).

I would agree, but I think this just shows how costly this could get in order to have a service that is truly beneficial to visitors to the park.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I would agree, but I think this just shows how costly this could get in order to have a service that is truly beneficial to visitors to the park.

100%. To be honest I think there just as much potential (if not more) to utilize autonomous buses moving in a continual loop, and would likely be cheaper implementation. Long-term costs who knows, but the world is moving in this direction.

[Amethyst]

When I took the On-It bus, I looked up the Greyhound fare just to compare. Greyhound was something like $70 while On-It was $10.

[Fuzz]

I was out in the valley this weekend, and we decided to take the bus from Canmore to Banff, then Banff to Lake Louise and cycle back. It was pretty fantastic. They have really upped their game this year. Canmore to Banff runs every half hour, and Banff to Lake Louise every hour, plus a scenic route up the 1A 3 times a day, and a Johnson Canyon one regularly. It was Friday, but the buses were near full.



The only drawback is they only allow 3 bikes on the LL bus, despite having a huge area below they could put racks. We got bumped due to an extremely rude old lady and her husband who basically pushed my wife out of the way and ran over tourists to steal the rack from us, so we spent an hour in Banff having coffee.



Overall though, I think they are doing a really good job of making transit a viable choice for tourists to get where they need to. It's also fairly cheap(probably to cheap) at $8 to get from Banff to Lake Louise. They also need to figure out payments, as they dont' give out change, and only accept cash. Really slowed loading down with tourists being turned away. A ticket machine at the main stop would help speed loading up a lot.

[Table 5]

How was it biking back? I've never done it, but it always seemed liked a shame to put that pathway right beside the highway.

[GGG]

Park transit has gotten a lot better this year.

Now they need to start charging for parking at Johnson Canyon and Lake Louise to subsidize the shuttles. The shuttle bus service from lake Louise overflow charges a fee while parking at the lake is free. So they incentivise the most desired option. On a weekend like Canada Day they should be charging $20-$50 to park at the lake an offering free transit instead.