Does Treliving win GM of the year? - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GioforPM · 03-23-2019, 02:22 PM

Neal signing is outweighed by the rookies, Hanifin, Lindholm, Ryan, Peters, and even Czarnik.

getbak · 03-23-2019, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

My vote goes to Botterill in Buffalo

Buffalo? Sure, two months into the season, he would have been the front-runner, but they've been a disaster in the second half of the season.

After 41 games, they were tied for 10th overall and only 4 points back of second overall. Since then, they are tied with Ottawa for the worst record in the league.

Right now, they're 2 points behind the Oilers. A record like that isn't going to win anyone any awards.

Enoch Root · 03-23-2019, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

My vote goes to Botterill in Buffalo, second would be Bergevin.

Calgary was never a tire fire like either of those teams.

You want to award GM of the year to a guy who's team is 14 points out of a playoff spot?

How about a Participation Ribbon?

1qqaaz · 03-23-2019, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Neal signing is outweighed by the rookies, Hanifin, Lindholm, Ryan, Peters, and even Czarnik.

Yes, the signing is outweighed by all those other good moves. But it's not an issue of "outweighing" the good moves and the bad moves.

Treliving is a good GM, hardly anyone is arguing that.
But the Neal signing might be, and probably is, more than enough to prevent Treliving from winning GM of the year. There's a difference between being a good GM and the "best" GM.

Plus, there's the goaltending. Which again, isn't bad, but could be better.
Hindsight is 20/20, but guys like Lehner and Kuemper could have been acquired in the summer for free. Many posters on Calgarypuck were clamoring for the Flames to sign them.

If Treliving can find a good replacement for Smith summer, I think he should probably win GM of the year next year. Assuming the Flames do well again.

TheScorpion · 03-23-2019, 02:36 PM

nm

Locke · 03-23-2019, 02:38 PM

I'd be willing to eat Crow on Chayka though.

What the Coyotes have persevered through and accomplished is pretty impressive.

I still think they should break all the rules and just hand it to Yzerman.

The fact that Chiarelli was once considered for it pretty much negates its overall value though. The concept that an modern-era Oiler GM even came anywhere near an award for anything even remotely resembling excellence in management dictates that this award is, by default, No Good.

They can keep it.

Krynn · 03-23-2019, 02:39 PM

My money is on Kevin "i know about Winning Lowe ,he's the one who's making all the decisions ,PC was just they to take the blame lol. But we know it go to dubas cause of the Center of the Universe can't be over ruled

GioforPM · 03-23-2019, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Yes, the signing is outweighed by all those other good moves. But it's not an issue of "outweighing" the good moves and the bad moves.

Treliving is a good GM, hardly anyone is arguing that.
But the Neal signing might be, and probably is, more than enough to prevent Treliving from winning GM of the year. There's a difference between being a good GM and the "best" GM.

Plus, there's the goaltending. Which again, isn't bad, but could be better.
Hindsight is 20/20, but guys like Lehner and Kuemper could have been acquired in the summer for free. Many posters on Calgarypuck were clamoring for the Flames to sign them.

If Treliving can find a good replacement for Smith summer, I think he should probably win GM of the year next year. Assuming the Flames do well again.

Keumper wasn't available in the summer. Lehner wasn't good. Mitch Korn has changed that.

Anyway, GM awards are for what you do thatvyear so if Treliving is gonna win it, it's this year, when he made most of his big moves. That's why I think Yzerman wouldn't win either.

Enoch Root · 03-23-2019, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Yes, the signing is outweighed by all those other good moves. But it's not an issue of "outweighing" the good moves and the bad moves.

Treliving is a good GM, hardly anyone is arguing that.
But the Neal signing might be, and probably is, more than enough to prevent Treliving from winning GM of the year. There's a difference between being a good GM and the "best" GM.

Plus, there's the goaltending. Which again, isn't bad, but could be better.
Hindsight is 20/20, but guys like Lehner and Kuemper could have been acquired in the summer for free. Many posters on Calgarypuck were clamoring for the Flames to sign them.

If Treliving can find a good replacement for Smith summer, I think he should probably win GM of the year next year. Assuming the Flames do well again.

It is not an award for 'best GM', it is an award for 'GM of the year'. In other words, it usually comes down to year over year improvement.

Locke · 03-23-2019, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is not an award for 'best GM', it is an award for 'GM of the year'. In other words, it usually comes down to year over year improvement.

Right, but at the same time if theres one job that is really hard to gauge success in annual increments its being the GM.

Trades you make, players you draft, these arent measurable in any meaningful capacity annually.

I see one team that is over and above all others and its by a long way, its not even close. Sure, their GM stepped down, but really....no changes were made.

Its the team he built. Its the coach he chose. Its the players he drafted or traded for. And its tearing the place apart.

GioforPM · 03-23-2019, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Right, but at the same time if theres one job that is really hard to gauge success in annual increments its being the GM.

Trades you make, players you draft, these arent measurable in any meaningful capacity annually.

I see one team that is over and above all others and its by a long way, its not even close. Sure, their GM stepped down, but really....no changes were made.

Its the team he built. Its the coach he chose. Its the players he drafted or traded for. And its tearing the place apart.

All true. Unfortunately for him it doesn't mean he should win GM of the year.

TheScorpion · 03-23-2019, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Trades you make, players you draft, these arent measurable in any meaningful capacity annually.

I'd say the Flames' trading, drafting, and signings made a huge difference on an annual scale that was really apparent this year.

dino7c · 03-23-2019, 02:54 PM

Teams with point totals in the 80s or lower shouldn't be considered

DoubleK · 03-23-2019, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You want to award GM of the year to a guy who's team is 14 points out of a playoff spot?

How about a Participation Ribbon?

They are looking to be +20 points over where they were last year. Which is pretty close to a 25% improvement.

They also have two 1st round picks in the upcoming draft.

DoubleK · 03-23-2019, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is not an award for 'best GM', it is an award for 'GM of the year'. In other words, it usually comes down to year over year improvement.

LOL, you mock me for picking Botterill and then say this.

Participation ribbon for you!!

Enoch Root · 03-23-2019, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

They are looking to be +20 points over where they were last year. Which is pretty close to a 25% improvement.

They also have two 1st round picks in the upcoming draft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

LOL, you mock me for picking Botterill and then say this.

Participation ribbon for you!!

see post #6

ComixZone · 03-23-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleK

LOL, you mock me for picking Botterill and then say this.

Participation ribbon for you!!

They had 62 points last season and have 71 points this season, and will miss the playoffs again.

The Flames had 84 points and now have 99.

As of now, that’s a 9 point increase from bad to irrelevant for the Sabres. He’s also poised to lose Skinner to free agency for nothing.

The Flames are currently improved by 15 points, and moved from average to elite.

Yes, Treliving should win GM of the year. He made a number of changes and built the 2nd best team in the league, and top team in the Western Conference.

DoubleK · 03-23-2019, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

see post #6

My point exactly.

topfiverecords · 03-23-2019, 03:53 PM

My vote would definitely be for Chiarelli. He made multiple teams better than they were last year.

1qqaaz · 03-23-2019, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It is not an award for 'best GM', it is an award for 'GM of the year'. In other words, it usually comes down to year over year improvement.

If you only consider 1 year, the sample size is too small to effectively evaluate a GM. Half the moves can be the result of luck, or lack thereof.

I think you got to look at at least a few years in analyzing the true quality of a GM.
And that's the problem with teams like Toronto, Vegas, and San Jose.
Moves in the past year have made their teams good. But I don't like the future outlook for most of those teams.

"GM of the year" shouldn't be for the GM who makes the best moves in the past calendar year. You're making the assumption that "of the year" is subject to temporal limitations. But it's really not.

And in regards to Lehner only being "okay" last year, well, he still had one of the highest career save percentages in league history over a decently large sample size. It's not too surprisingly that he's back to form now.
And Kuemper was definitely obtainable. He was traded from the LA Kings for ... not much.