Can you please tell us what you think Fascism is? I'd really like to hear what you think it means. If you're going to say these people look like Fascists to you, then you clearly know what it means right? And I really don't think you know what it means.
So here's your chance to prove me wrong, or educate me.
If you read carefully, I said they look like fascists.
I prefer to use the term authoritarian, or even totalitarian when it comes to the ideology on display here.
Can you please tell us what you think Fascism is? I'd really like to hear what you think it means. If you're going to say these people look like Fascists to you, then you clearly know what it means right? And I really don't think you know what it means.
So here's your chance to prove me wrong, or educate me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
If you read carefully, I said they look like fascists.
I prefer to use the term authoritarian, or even totalitarian when it comes to the ideology on display here.
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If you read carefully, I said they look like fascists.
I prefer to use the term authoritarian, or even totalitarian when it comes to the ideology on display here.
Saying "Fascist", and then pivoting to "Authoritarian" is a pretty breakneck swivel.
There's a pretty huge swath of historical government models that encompass "Authoritarian", and many of them are not Fascist.
It's also pretty entertaining to throw the Fascist label at a group of people with 0 political power (Oh no! Not The Court Of Public Opinion!) when the US government in power is quite literally implementing Fascist policies.
Saying "Fascist", and then pivoting to "Authoritarian" is a pretty breakneck swivel.
There's a pretty huge swath of historical government models that encompass "Authoritarian", and many of them are not Fascist.
That, actually, was my point.
All fascists are authoritarian, but not all authoritarians are fascists.
What's interesting is that the left (and I wouldn't even say the radical left), is happy to use the same techniques that fascists would use to achieve their authoritarian left goals. It's the irony of the repeated claims of "fascism" that claimed by the left.
When I said they look like fascists, I meant it - they were behaving as fascists often do.
Angry mobs just look like angry mobs. They don't look like authoritarianism, in part because they don't have any authority, and they're not really representative of any specific ideology as much as they're representative of anger and mob mentality in those moments.
The truth about authoritarianism though, is that many people in the US and Canada would be happy under it. Some, such as those benefiting from the ruling party's authority, would very possibly be happier under it than under a democratic system of government. If Trump succeeds in holding power after an election with no outcome or a false outcome, plenty of people will welcome the death of democracy in practice while still believing they're the shining city on the hill and the greatest democracy the world has ever known.
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Instead of scolding people into voting for the chosen candidate that doesn't necessarily represent their interests, wouldn't it make more sense to extend an olive branch and try to entice them into your tent with a more inclusive platform?
Nobody likes a finger-waving schoolmarm. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
And how do you extend an olive branch to those who don't want to accept the olive branch? What olive branch would have been enough of a gesture to get the Bernie Bros on board? Cabinet position? Vice President? Supreme Commander of the Unified Armies of the Galaxy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FunkMasterFlame
Regardless of the source, this actually happened.
Any thoughts on the mob of angry BLM activists demanding random people eating in restaurants raise their fist in solidarity with the movement?
Yeah, they're woke ######bags.
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They aren't interested in working within the system or changing the system.
They are throwing their support behind left wing authoritarian ideologies. The Democrats insistence on constantly describing Trump as an illegitimate president accelerated this process.
Those people look a lot like fascists to me.
I would like to point out that 100% of the 'BLM' protesters shown in that video are white, while the woman being tormented and yelled in her face looks to be of hispanic origin.
In fact, everywhere you see, in all the Portland 'protest' videos and clashes with Trump supporters and police, nearly all of the participants were white, on both sides. Portland is a predominantly white city, the whitest city in the US.
Yet it has the largest protests still ongoing in the US. Why? Because Portland is one of the founding cities of Antifa.
The current Portland protests are not what they seem, much like how the non-native rail protesters busing in from the US were a sham. These are mainly professional protesters that have nothing to do with the movement and everything to do with disturbing the peace.
Extremists have no place in society and right now we are seeing a clash of extremists from both with moderates stuck in the middle, and it's not looking pretty.
Current Portland protests have more in common with one image versus the other.
The main reason why the mass media has avoided reporting on Portland until very recently once Trump supporters got involved and caused a clash is because the protests doesn't fit the narrative, and the crowd..isn't BLM.
Angry mobs just look like angry mobs. They don't look like authoritarianism, in part because they don't have any authority, and they're not really representative of any specific ideology as much as they're representative of anger and mob mentality in those moments.
The truth about authoritarianism though, is that many people in the US and Canada would be happy under it. Some, such as those benefiting from the ruling party's authority, would very possibly be happier under it than under a democratic system of government. If Trump succeeds in holding power after an election with no outcome or a false outcome, plenty of people will welcome the death of democracy in practice while still believing they're the shining city on the hill and the greatest democracy the world has ever known.
Agreed. Canadians in general are much more accepting of authoritarianism than americans. Trudeau even complimented the Chinese on the decision making efficiency of their dictatorship.
We have a form of government that essentially combines the legislative branch and the executive branch. Many Canadian voters weren't particularly bothered by Trudeau's attempt to corrupt the Judicial branch as well. We are happy with larger governments, more taxes, more invasion of our freedom of speech. Canadians are more compliant when faced with government orders - sometimes to our benefit, sometimes not.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoLevi
If you read carefully, I said they look like fascists.
I prefer to use the term authoritarian, or even totalitarian when it comes to the ideology on display here.
My question stands. What do you think Fascist means.
Because I still don't think you know what it means, and you seem to be refusing to answer my question.
I'm going to guess you looked up what Fascism meant, realized you couldn't apply it here, and are now doing some mental gymnstics.
So what exactly makes these people LOOK like fascists?
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It was fun watching the GOP completely and consistently butcher and misuse the term 'socialism' in their convention last week. I don't think they even know the actual definition of the word, but it's not like they care anyways.
All fascists are authoritarian, but not all authoritarians are fascists.
What's interesting is that the left (and I wouldn't even say the radical left), is happy to use the same techniques that fascists would use to achieve their authoritarian left goals. It's the irony of the repeated claims of "fascism" that claimed by the left.
When I said they look like fascists, I meant it - they were behaving as fascists often do.
I think a couple of things are interesting here.
You see a video, say they're behaving as fascists do. Fair enough. Someone posts videos of a White shooter and of a Black man getting shot in the back, you talk about "the internet mob" and "not having enough details" and that "the problem is, you came to a conclusion at all." It's interesting you're hesitant to come to any conclusions about a video where someone shoots three people or where an officer shoots someone in the back seven times, but have no problem coming to conclusion that these people look like fascists. Coincidence, I guess.
You dismiss or trivialize systemic racism, saying "Do I believe racism in law enforcement is the best explanation for this data? No, I don't" and "We simply can't extrapolate anything based on a small sample size" which, again, is fair enough. But then use a small sample size, a video here or there, to provide evidence of the left's (and not just the far left's) authoritarian goals, or that 'Bernie Bros' are throwing their support behind left wing authoritarian ideologues, or to paint the left, BLM, or whomever else you don't like as fascists, or authoritarians, or Marxists, or whatever.
So, your standard for labelling the left as authoritarians that support left wing ideologues and have authoritarian goals and sometimes, "look like fascists" because that's how fascists act, is remarkably low. You have no problem looking at a group of people yelling at someone and saying "they look like fascists" and then going on a little rant about the authoritarian left. Cool.
But then videos of White shooters and Black victims? Can't make a conclusion, the internet mob at work. System racism? Don't believe so, can't make such a grand claim without bigger sample sizes.
Just interesting is all.
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My question stands. What do you think Fascist means.
Because I still don't think you know what it means, and you seem to be refusing to answer my question.
I'm going to guess you looked up what Fascism meant, realized you couldn't apply it here, and are now doing some mental gymnstics.
So what exactly makes these people LOOK like fascists?
You see a video, say they're behaving as fascists do. Fair enough. Someone posts videos of a White shooter and of a Black man getting shot in the back, you talk about "the internet mob" and "not having enough details" and that "the problem is, you came to a conclusion at all." It's interesting you're hesitant to come to any conclusions about a video where someone shoots three people or where an officer shoots someone in the back seven times, but have no problem coming to conclusion that these people look like fascists. Coincidence, I guess.
You dismiss or trivialize systemic racism, saying "Do I believe racism in law enforcement is the best explanation for this data? No, I don't" and "We simply can't extrapolate anything based on a small sample size" which, again, is fair enough. But then use a small sample size, a video here or there, to provide evidence of the left's (and not just the far left's) authoritarian goals, or that 'Bernie Bros' are throwing their support behind left wing authoritarian ideologues, or to paint the left, BLM, or whomever else you don't like as fascists, or authoritarians, or Marxists, or whatever.
So, your standard for labelling the left as authoritarians that support left wing ideologues and have authoritarian goals and sometimes, "look like fascists" because that's how fascists act, is remarkably low. You have no problem looking at a group of people yelling at someone and saying "they look like fascists" and then going on a little rant about the authoritarian left. Cool.
But then videos of White shooters and Black victims? Can't make a conclusion, the internet mob at work. System racism? Don't believe so, can't make such a grand claim without bigger sample sizes.
Just interesting is all.
This is an excellent post, and I think it furthers the discussion. So thank you for that.
I think the difference is that I'm not sure what the motivations are of the cops that shot Jacob Blake. I can see the motivations for the leftist mobs because they tell us. I'm using the common and regularly stated ideologies of the left and using the video of the mob as an example.
People are taking the Jacob Blake shooting (or the George Floyd killing), assuming the causality (race) and extrapolating that causality to the police as a whole and then further extrapolating that causality to society at large (ie systemic racism). I don't think such extrapolations are compelling evidence.
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It was fun watching the GOP completely and consistently butcher and misuse the term 'socialism' in their convention last week. I don't think they even know the actual definition of the word, but it's not like they care anyways.
Agreed. Canadians in general are much more accepting of authoritarianism than americans. Trudeau even complimented the Chinese on the decision making efficiency of their dictatorship.
Indeed, because an American head of state would never be caught dead praising the actions of despots and dictators.
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Originally Posted by Donald Trump
Thank you very much. It's a great honor and privilege -- because he's become a friend of mine -- to introduce President Erdogan of Turkey. He's running a very difficult part of the world. He's involved very, very strongly and, frankly, he's getting very high marks.
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Originally Posted by Donald Trump
President Xi, who is a strong man, I call him King, he said, 'But I am not King, I am president.' I said, 'No, you're president for life and therefore, you're King.' He said, 'Huh. Huh.' He liked that.
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Originally Posted by Donald Trump
Well, first of all, let me say that I think that Kim Jong Un, or Chairman Kim, as some people say, is looking to create a nation that has great strength economically. I think he's very much -- I talk to him a lot about it, and he's very much into the fact that -- he believes, like I do, that North Korea has tremendous economic potential like perhaps few other developing nations anywhere in the world.
And as for Trump and Putin, well... let's just use a link or we'll be here all day.
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This is an excellent post, and I think it furthers the discussion. So thank you for that.
I think the difference is that I'm not sure what the motivations are of the cops that shot Jacob Blake. I can see the motivations for the leftist mobs because they tell us. I'm using the common and regularly stated ideologies of the left and using the video of the mob as an example.
People are taking the Jacob Blake shooting (or the George Floyd killing), assuming the causality (race) and extrapolating that causality to the police as a whole and then further extrapolating that causality to society at large (ie systemic racism). I don't think such extrapolations are compelling evidence.
You've got that backwards. These shootings aren't happening in a bubble. The experience of systemic racism isn't extrapolated from these shootings as much as these shootings are viewed as unacceptable manifestations of systemic racism that people already know from lifetimes of experience.
Not everyone has the experiences in their life to know systemic racism already exists, and that's part of what systemic racism is. It's why people who don't know it from their own experience should listen first.
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I guess I must have missed in the video of the BLM protestors at the restaurant where they said "we're doing this because we want to look like fascists and further the left's authoritarian agenda."
I honestly can't make anything out in that video. I mean sometimes, one can jump to a conclusion from a video, and my conclusion is that was a mob, acting like a bunch of dicks. (as mobs often do).
Did they end up shooting that woman, who appeared to have done nothing wrong?
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