Misinformation and people's deep beliefs in them are the most dangerous kind of weapon an adversary has in their toolbelt. A hive mind around lies is worse than any bomb or a missile IMO. Ideas are more deadly than weapons themselves.
The Soviets had a deep and pervasive disinformation strategy from about 1960-1980, created in the name of military deception and national security. Part of it was making significant use of "agents of influence" and "useful idiots". The same thing is still going on today with Russian troll factories feeding the Internet swaths of disinformation and lies (of which no doubt former Soviet KGB president Vladimir Putin likely has a handle over). And these tactics have been highly successful for Russia, all without even firing a gun.
We are literally in the middle of nations, organizations, and thought leaders being used in misinformation campaigns for strategic goals. But we just don't really put much credence into the whole thing, because everyone believes they're sound enough to separate the truth from the disinformation or be able to look at things objectively.
I'd say all you can do preach the virtues of objectivity, trusted sources, and logic. And do it pleasantly and without telling them they're crazy or wrong, just to make judgments with all the facts on the table.
The simplest question to ask people is "who is doing this, and WHY?"
Like, what is the purpose of cloaking a second sun?
That's a great question which of course didn't have an answer.
And while we QUESTION EVERYTHING, we fail to question the simplest conundrums.
It was so awkward I wanted to chew through my own wrists to escape the logic vacuum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yamer
Even though he says he only wanted steak and potatoes, he was aware of all the rapes.
Without getting into too much personal details, she had some sort of anxiety / mental breakdown back in May and ended up in the psych ward at the hospital for a while. Was big drama in the family as she was saying a lot of strange things and acting very oddly and we were all very concerned. She was eventually released with adjusted medications and is doing much better now.
Fast forward to today and she's sending me texts like "I need to tell you about God and the real spiritual battle going on in the world! It all has to do with what happened back in May" etc. etc.
She's already talked to my parents and, being an older conservative Christian couple, are of course happy to think she was involved in some grand spiritual battle instead of serious mental health problems. I've been avoiding this as she only seems to want to talk about in person, not even on the phone, and the whole thing just makes me uncomfortable. Of course this comes up just in time to make Christmas gatherings weird.
A friend of mine who I sorta lost touch with when she moved west about 6 years ago has gone full tilt into the conspiracy camp. The only channel I have open with them these days is Instagram, and it astounds me what kind of garbage she posts. Whether she actually believes some of this #### or has dug in so deep that there's no turning back without looking like a fool, I don't know.
I think we probably all know somebody like this, but what really gets me is that I had no idea they were like this, absolutely no idea--and I'm pretty good at reading people
Without getting into too much personal details, she had some sort of anxiety / mental breakdown back in May and ended up in the psych ward at the hospital for a while. Was big drama in the family as she was saying a lot of strange things and acting very oddly and we were all very concerned. She was eventually released with adjusted medications and is doing much better now.
Fast forward to today and she's sending me texts like "I need to tell you about God and the real spiritual battle going on in the world! It all has to do with what happened back in May" etc. etc.
She's already talked to my parents and, being an older conservative Christian couple, are of course happy to think she was involved in some grand spiritual battle instead of serious mental health problems. I've been avoiding this as she only seems to want to talk about in person, not even on the phone, and the whole thing just makes me uncomfortable. Of course this comes up just in time to make Christmas gatherings weird.
She might be right and maybe we're the ones who are crazy in not believing her
The simplest question to ask people is "who is doing this, and WHY?"
Like, what is the purpose of cloaking a second sun?
But they'll have an answer to this. The "why" always has something to do with "it's how they maintain power". Some version of that. As for the who, you can choose between:
Aliens;
the Government; or
the Jews.
... I sometimes wonder if no one specifies which "they" they're talking about so that they don't have to argue with the other crazies about whether it's the Government or the aliens who are responsible. Although I suspect they would ultimately meet in the middle and decide that the aliens are colluding with the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout
I love the strategy of going crazier.
Them: You know the moon landing was faked right?
Me: Oh, you BELIEVE in the moon, do you? You're one of THOSE people! Baaaa sheep!
Just go straight to simulation theory.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
But they'll have an answer to this. The "why" always has something to do with "it's how they maintain power". Some version of that. As for the who, you can choose between:
Yeah, the "why" always has an answer. I think it's generally the first answer a conspiracy theorist comes up with and it generally hooks people in - it provides an answer that laypeople can comprehend and understand.
Never mind how G.W. Bush was able to orchestrate and cover up a massive false flag operation to look like an act of terrorism, it's easy to see why he would do it!
Meanwhile, the "why" discounts other "why" answers that lay people do not know about - like the entire history of Afghanistan and the Taliban.
In other circumstances, lay people can't live with an answer they are uncomfortable with. "The election was rigged" or that exposes the unexplained or randomness of our world (COVID)
The "how" is hole in any argument. But any argument with a bone fide conspiracy theorist is generally futile because:
(1) rationality is likely not their to begin with;
(2) despite our general knowledge of certain events or topics, we will never have enough knowledge of the subject to effectively argue with someone who has spent hours reading false or misleading information.
How can i prove to a flat earther that the earth is round? I don't know any experiments that would effectively prove such a result, or the math to explain it. I can take that person up into a plane and show them the horizon, but i guarantee they have some (false) explanation that refutes said evidence.
But they'll have an answer to this. The "why" always has something to do with "it's how they maintain power". Some version of that. As for the who, you can choose between:
Aliens;
the Government; or
the Jews.
... I sometimes wonder if no one specifies which "they" they're talking about so that they don't have to argue with the other crazies about whether it's the Government or the aliens who are responsible. Although I suspect they would ultimately meet in the middle and decide that the aliens are colluding with the government.
Just go straight to simulation theory.
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Conspiracy Theories fill exactly the same role religion does: they provide a reason for the chaos of life.
Life is a difficult, chaotic experience which doesn't make much sense. Bad things happen to good people all the time. Terrible people are rewarded, bad deeds almost always go unpunished, well-meaning highly intelligent people make terrible mistakes, and most major events are the results of random chance and 99% of it is completely out of our own control.
In an earlier age, the randomness and lack of control came from our environments: storms and flood and famines and earthquakes. War and plague and the vagaries of being born into a 'station' in life. In our modern world the randomness of nature has an explanation, but not the randomness of human actions, or our lack of control over others or events.
For a pattern-finding, sense-making brain like the one we've evolved, that, to motivate self-preservation, considers itself the most important entity in existence this is intolerable. Sense must be made. So we make sense of the world. The random forces of nature are controlled by understandable entities with whom we can commune and hopefully influence. We can sacrifice, chant, pray, follow religious teachings, all in an effort to take control as much as we can, to be some kind of participant in the ridiculous whirlpool we're stuck in.
The conspiracy theory offers exactly the same sense of understanding to those who find them attractive. It offers an explanation for why things never worked out the way they should for you or your family, your town, your 'people,' your country. It also offers - like religion - a way to participate and take some control in your own life. You may not be a part of the cabal, but you can know about it, you can learn about it, look for the signs, make the connections, figure out who's behind what lie and now with the growth of the internet and social media, a congregation has developed like never before.
You can find people who think the same, or similar things, you can have doctrinal arguments (does the bread actually become the body of the lizard people when you eat it, or is it symbolically the body of the lizard people?), there are high priests and sages, prophetic works, and - just like a good religion - for the faithful absolutely no way to falsify the central tenets of the faith.
Conspiracy theories are religions (and yes, the corollary is also true).
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Without getting into too much personal details, she had some sort of anxiety / mental breakdown back in May and ended up in the psych ward at the hospital for a while. Was big drama in the family as she was saying a lot of strange things and acting very oddly and we were all very concerned. She was eventually released with adjusted medications and is doing much better now.
Fast forward to today and she's sending me texts like "I need to tell you about God and the real spiritual battle going on in the world! It all has to do with what happened back in May" etc. etc.
She's already talked to my parents and, being an older conservative Christian couple, are of course happy to think she was involved in some grand spiritual battle instead of serious mental health problems. I've been avoiding this as she only seems to want to talk about in person, not even on the phone, and the whole thing just makes me uncomfortable. Of course this comes up just in time to make Christmas gatherings weird.
A lot of sisters going nuts on here. Mine has as well.
Without getting into too many details, she's struggled with mental health for her whole life. And not in a sympathetic way but in a "dead god, please get this person away from us" way. We lost our grandfather last fall and she went into a bad slide and started macrodosing Psilocybin (3gm a day) and had a break. Went to the hospital and when she came out was full of God, Qanon, and just insane ####. Her twitter was wild.
I'm out on the coast and couldn't convince my family they needed to act and get her help right away. Unfortunately no one made the hard decisions and I'm afraid the ability to help her is lost now that it's been so long.
I get what the above poster is saying about conspiracy theorists and religion. And its absolutely valid.
However I think its tough to be that simple. From a pure I think psychological standpoint. People are drawn into the whole rabbit hole of conspiracy theories because it makes them feel like they have control through knowledge, that they are protected by that knowledge, and that it allows them to explain frightening events in the most simplified terms.
For a long time the biggest conspiracy theory wasn't the "faked" moon landing, or the Jewish Conspiracy to control the world, or even JFK assasination. But 9/11.
Loose Change or whatever it was, which is a fantastic piece of evolving conspiracy film work captured peoples imagination because it allowed them to explain away the 9/11 attacks, not for what they were but for what they could be, and if you have the "knowledge of what happened" you're aware and the next time you'll probably be better protected from it. But it leads to amazing leaps of logic when you talk to or debate people.
Its not that you can prove yourself right when you're talking to a conspiracy theorist, it has to be that you have to prove them wrong, and the people making money on this stuff have created a relentless and endless string of troll logic that these conspiracy theorists can use to protect themselves and their theory.
The pentagon thing is fascinating because you can debate someone all day and they just keep rolling out "facts"
A plane hit the pentagon.
Nope it was a cruise missile flown remotely by the government
But there were witnesses to the plane banking over the highway.
Nope this shadow on this frame is covering a long range antennae
But it crashed into the building right here.
That hole is to small to be caused by a large jet.
The wings snapped off and the engines, see this debris in these pictures, that's a jet turbine from that type of plane and that's a wing strut.
It was planted by the government
And on and on and on.
While Religion can certainly be a protective measure for people, and a way to easily explain the universe around them, and to certainly make them feel more powerful. It doesn't compare to a lot of the mental logic turns for conspiracy theorists.
The sad thing is that conspiracy theorists are incredibly vulnerable. You look at the sheer number of insane books and videos that people put out and conventions and meetings and websites with merchandise stores. Its crazy the amount of money that's being made off of people that possibly have real significant mental issues and phobias.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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