Pentagon releases UFO videos

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’m not sure how I made this personal. Your just wrong and keep doubling down.

As I said in my first or second post if you say there is only evidence for humans and I believe in the rare earth hypothesis then your statement is fine. I disagree with you but it’s certainly a fun discussion.

But if you don’t believe in rare earth then it’s not equally likely because in conditions of the universe where there is more than 1 intelligent species there will me many more that 1 based on the number of stars in the universe.

So you are just logically wrong. The equally likely case doesn’t exist.

I’m not sure why you can’t just be less specific and just say it’s possible.

Again, I don’t know why I have to repeat this, but the two things at play are:
- human technology is the most advanced in the universe
- human technology is not strong and is in its infancy on a galactic scale

First we have to admit we don’t know either of these things.

Then, we have to admit that we have zero evidence of life outside our own planet and everything that follows (intelligent life, advanced technology, etc). So, anything relating to any alien life is hypothetical or based on conjecture or assumption or whatever.

Third, if we don’t have any evidence ANY of that exists, we can’t possibly (with any accuracy at all) take any concrete positions on the probability or likelihood of the thing we don’t know existing, existing but even better than the thing we know exists. It would make zero sense to do so.

So, if the best we can do is guess, then I’m happy to say the two things above are equally likely in a completely generic, hypothetical sense. They might be equally likely in the sense that they are both totally unlikely. Doesn’t really matter to me.

I already listed multiple things that were “possible” and said repeatedly this is meant to be generic and hypothetical, so I don’t know why you are so stuck on the word. It’s equally annoying to have you repeat an equation that relies on unknown pieces and assumptions and acting like it’s an authoritative example on what is or isn’t possible. The Drake equation is meant to encourage discussion, not be used to shut it down as though it’s some definitive truth. Why would you use it that way? lol. I thought you made it personal when you said I was acting stupid. I’m not acting stupid. I’m assuming you and Lanny know more than me since you’re so confident in how wrong I am but neither of you are actually proving me wrong beyond “my guess is different than yours,” which is totally fine!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Guessing that’s a “no” to doing the math then?

Maybe the math was harder than you thought or something, but you do mention the value of “doing” (application) so I suppose I’m a little confused why you’re avoiding it and just sticking with the personal comments.

Do the math. It's an application of a simple theorem. What are you afraid of? Your numbers being shown as grossly wrong? You keep talking about being educated, here is the opportunity. DO.THE.####ING.MATH. I know you get off on pissing people off, but this is YOUR moment to shine and show you can actually understand the issue. Step up big fella. I know you can.

Originally Posted by TherapyforGlencross

This is quite rude and condescending, don’t you think? What part of this post contributes anything to the discussion of intelligent life? Great, I now know that you think another individual lacks the education or intelligence to contribute to such a topic. Do you talk like this in real-life?? Posts like these make me want to stray away from this discussion.. I don’t post much, so maybe there’s a reason for this kind of post, off-putting to people who may be interested in such a topic..

I appreciate your feelings or the potential blizzard you could create. Read the whole thread and understand it before making comment. I personally hate Johnny-come-latelys that think they can jump in the middle of a thread and make judgments. If you're interested in the topic, read the whole thread and understand the issues being discussed. Once you do that, welcome to the party. The more the merrier and I look forward to your potential insight. But understand the various nuances of the topic in question, what has been discussed, and the points of debate. Everyone benefits when we don't have to rehash points or hear stuff that has been discussed ad nauseum.

[Fuzz]

Ya man, this is serious business. Go back and read all 1142 posts, and make sure you understand them, lest someone deem your post irritating. While you're at it, review all the literature/Youtube videos just in case something has been addressed by someone at some point in the past of humanity, otherwise it's pointless to have you around. Maybe find some intergalactic encyclopedias to review as well, should another planet have already covered it.

/LannyTips.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Do the math. It's an application of a simple theorem. What are you afraid of? Your numbers being shown as grossly wrong? You keep talking about being educated, here is the opportunity. DO.THE.####ING.MATH. I know you get off on pissing people off, but this is YOUR moment to shine and show you can actually understand the issue. Step up big fella. I know you can.



I appreciate your feelings or the potential blizzard you could create. Read the whole thread and understand it before making comment. I personally hate Johnny-come-latelys that think they can jump in the middle of a thread and make judgments. If you're interested in the topic, read the whole thread and understand the issues being discussed. Once you do that, welcome to the party. The more the merrier and I look forward to your potential insight. But understand the various nuances of the topic in question, what has been discussed, and the points of debate. Everyone benefits when we don't have to rehash points or hear stuff that has been discussed ad nauseum.

But I don’t think I need math to support my position, you say there’s easy math that shows me I’m wrong. You’re the one who brought it up. If I knew what that was and could do it myself, why would I be holding a position that the math proved wrong? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, does it?

So, could you please just teach me the math that shows me I’m wrong?

I promise nobody is afraid of anything and I promise you can think whatever you want about how educated I am without it bothering me. It’s all good man, just have no idea how I’m supposed to know something that, if I knew it, would change my opinion. Seems obvious.

[Ozy_Flame]

Man this thread was more fun when new developments in the UAP community were shared and stories about encounters were mused over.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Man this thread was more fun when new developments in the UAP community were shared and stories about encounters were mused over.

it's become a discussion of "No I won't do your homework for you and please do it for me." It's quite hilarious!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Dion

it's become a discussion of "No I won't do your homework for you and please do it for me." It's quite hilarious!

Listen, I was happy to tell Fuzz all about Blob life before the adjunct professor stepped in to call me an uneducated dumb dumb and assign me homework to the tune of “I can prove you’re wrong so show me why you’re wrong or else you’re stupid.”

As I can’t show an equation I don’t know (but apparently exists, despite everyone refusing to teach me), I will HAPPILY go back to generalities and the simple beauty of Blob life. Perhaps there are no such petty personal grievances among the Blob people.

In fact, I would go so far as to say it is equally likely.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Isn't it cute. Pepsi playing the victim card. At least you admitted you don't know something. First step to recovery. First step to getting educated. ;-)

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Isn't it cute. Pepsi playing the victim card. At least you admitted you don't know something. First step to recovery. First step to getting educated. ;-)

Not playing victim, don’t feel like one at all!

Still waiting for that easy math equation that proves me wrong, though. Perhaps you could get to sharing it instead of continuing the personal shots. They’re really boring and I’d rather stop wasting my time if you don’t actually have anything interesting to teach and were just lying about it. As an educator I’m sure you can appreciate my interest in learning, so I’d appreciate if you could put your personal grudge aside and just get on with the thing that proves me wrong.

[TherapyforGlencross]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I appreciate your feelings or the potential blizzard you could create. Read the whole thread and understand it before making comment. I personally hate Johnny-come-latelys that think they can jump in the middle of a thread and make judgments. If you're interested in the topic, read the whole thread and understand the issues being discussed. Once you do that, welcome to the party. The more the merrier and I look forward to your potential insight. But understand the various nuances of the topic in question, what has been discussed, and the points of debate. Everyone benefits when we don't have to rehash points or hear stuff that has been discussed ad nauseum.

Only comment I’ll make on this.

I’d say read the room. This is a Flames off-topic discussion board consisting of people from all types of trades and industries. This isn’t an academic forum of the subject. Unless you’re actively doing some type of related research about this topic, aren’t we all layman here? Secondly, I don’t post here much, how am I supposed to know the inner relationship between two posters? I see two people arguing, but one has resorted to absolute personal attacks on intelligence and education status. Again, as someone who is an infrequent user, how am I supposed to ‘read this conversation’ and fully understand why you’re correct in such blatant aggression? Both sides of the argument seem appealing to me, it’s an interesting subject matter. But it’s near damn impossible to read the conversation when basically the entire piece was reverted to petty #### talking. Aren’t we adults here? Who cares if you’re right if you make yourself look like an ass?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not playing victim, don’t feel like one at all!

Still waiting for that easy math equation that proves me wrong, though. Perhaps you could get to sharing it instead of continuing the personal shots. They’re really boring and I’d rather stop wasting my time if you don’t actually have anything interesting to teach and were just lying about it. As an educator I’m sure you can appreciate my interest in learning, so I’d appreciate if you could put your personal grudge aside and just get on with the thing that proves me wrong.

There is no real math equation for intelligent life in the universe but there is probability, the abiogenesis from simple single celled organisms to humans took a few billion years and probably a lot of luck, Drake's equation is flawed now because of his fraction of stars with extrasolar planets guess, now, depending on the "expert" you ask the probability today is between 4 and 20 intelligent species per 100 billion star systems at any given time, but with at least 2 trillion galaxy's, that's probability guaranteed!

Now can I please get back on subject arguing about whether these aliens have visited earth.

They haven't and never will

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Not playing victim, don’t feel like one at all!

Still waiting for that easy math equation that proves me wrong, though. Perhaps you could get to sharing it instead of continuing the personal shots. They’re really boring and I’d rather stop wasting my time if you don’t actually have anything interesting to teach and were just lying about it. As an educator I’m sure you can appreciate my interest in learning, so I’d appreciate if you could put your personal grudge aside and just get on with the thing that proves me wrong.

Jesus Pep, start with Drake. I personally hate Drake because it relies on some really bad assumptions and bad variables. But start there to get something theoretical going. And then start looking at what we have discovered in the past 60+ years since Drake.

Cosmologists estimate there are between 200 and 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy alone. We may think that is big, but the closest galaxies to us are two to four times in size. Even if you think the Milky Way is an average sized galaxy you have to then understand that with data from Hubble, Kepler, and Webb it is estimated there are two trillion galaxies in the known universe. Galaxy IC 1101, the largest we've studied, is 5.5 light years across and is estimated to house 100 trillion stars all by itself. 100 trillion in one galaxy alone. Even if you take a middling projection of the Milky Way and use it as the basis for a start, that's 300 billion stars times two trillion galaxies. That's an estimated 600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (6.e+23) stars. Multiply that by the number of planets in the Goldilocks zone. If the building blocks exist on two planets (that we know of) in our tiny solar system, how unique do you think it's going to be. Start working the odds. Start working the bell curve.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Listen, I was happy to tell Fuzz all about Blob life before the adjunct professor stepped in to call me an uneducated dumb dumb and assign me homework to the tune of “I can prove you’re wrong so show me why you’re wrong or else you’re stupid.”

As I can’t show an equation I don’t know (but apparently exists, despite everyone refusing to teach me), I will HAPPILY go back to generalities and the simple beauty of Blob life. Perhaps there are no such petty personal grievances among the Blob people.

In fact, I would go so far as to say it is equally likely.

Sorry dude, but all this talk about Blobs, equations and such is way above my education level. I'm just some poor uneducated old man who is here to read and learn whatever I can.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Isn't it cute. Pepsi playing the victim card. At least you admitted you don't know something. First step to recovery. First step to getting educated. ;-)

No need to be an #######.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Jesus Pep, start with Drake. I personally hate Drake because it relies on some really bad assumptions and bad variables. But start there to get something theoretical going. And then start looking at what we have discovered in the past 60+ years since Drake.

Cosmologists estimate there are between 200 and 400 billion stars in the Milky Way galaxy alone. We may think that is big, but the closest galaxies to us are two to four times in size. Even if you think the Milky Way is an average sized galaxy you have to then understand that with data from Hubble, Kepler, and Webb it is estimated there are two trillion galaxies in the known universe. Galaxy IC 1101, the largest we've studied, is 5.5 light years across and is estimated to house 100 trillion stars all by itself. 100 trillion in one galaxy alone. Even if you take a middling projection of the Milky Way and use it as the basis for a start, that's 300 billion stars times two trillion galaxies. That's an estimated 600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (6.e+23) stars. Multiply that by the number of planets in the Goldilocks zone. If the building blocks exist on two planets (that we know of) in our tiny solar system, how unique do you think it's going to be. Start working the odds. Start working the bell curve.

But we’re the only planet with evidence of life, let alone intelligent life, let alone intelligent life that’s technologically advanced.

The best that equation can do is show something might exist… maybe. It doesn’t prove the existence of anything, nor does it prove that humans don’t have the best technology. It can’t even come close to doing that.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But we’re the only planet with evidence of life, let alone intelligent life, let alone intelligent life that’s technologically advanced.

The best that equation can do is show something might exist… maybe. It doesn’t prove the existence of anything, nor does it prove that humans don’t have the best technology. It can’t even come close to doing that.

If I was putting money down, though, pretty easy choice... Although, one where I'd likely never collect in our lifetime.

[ripTDR]

Originally Posted by jayswin

If I was putting money down, though, pretty easy choice... Although, one where I'd likely never collect in our lifetime.

You could be right, but can you say for certainly that anything has visited us?


According to Lanny, space is super crazy vast and we might have to come to the realization that light is the speed limit anything can travel. If so, that sucks for us and them.



We keep looking (rightly so) out there for any sign but if we receive something it wont really mean anything, because the signal is probably so old that whomever sent it is probably too far away to do anything about it anyways.


I dunno, maybe instead of looking outward, advanced civilizations have conquered inter dimensional travel instead...

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

....600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (6.e+23) stars......

You forgot to multiply that number by infinity to account for parallel dimensions.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Again, I don’t know why I have to repeat this, but the two things at play are:
- human technology is the most advanced in the universe
- human technology is not strong and is in its infancy on a galactic scale

First we have to admit we don’t know either of these things.

Then, we have to admit that we have zero evidence of life outside our own planet and everything that follows (intelligent life, advanced technology, etc). So, anything relating to any alien life is hypothetical or based on conjecture or assumption or whatever.

Third, if we don’t have any evidence ANY of that exists, we can’t possibly (with any accuracy at all) take any concrete positions on the probability or likelihood of the thing we don’t know existing, existing but even better than the thing we know exists. It would make zero sense to do so.

So, if the best we can do is guess, then I’m happy to say the two things above are equally likely in a completely generic, hypothetical sense. They might be equally likely in the sense that they are both totally unlikely. Doesn’t really matter to me.

I already listed multiple things that were “possible” and said repeatedly this is meant to be generic and hypothetical, so I don’t know why you are so stuck on the word. It’s equally annoying to have you repeat an equation that relies on unknown pieces and assumptions and acting like it’s an authoritative example on what is or isn’t possible. The Drake equation is meant to encourage discussion, not be used to shut it down as though it’s some definitive truth. Why would you use it that way? lol. I thought you made it personal when you said I was acting stupid. I’m not acting stupid. I’m assuming you and Lanny know more than me since you’re so confident in how wrong I am but neither of you are actually proving me wrong beyond “my guess is different than yours,” which is totally fine!

It’s funny that you can post this but not concede equally likely was the wrong phrase to use. My whole point of all of my posts was you were implying precision which didn’t exist. That was it.

As for Drake my point is that We are either alone or if the Universe can develop more than one advanced civilization we aren’t the most technologically advanced intelligent life. If you can’t play with the variables of the Drake equation and see why that is true I’m not sure I can help you get there. And the two possibilities amid being alone or not being alone are certainly not roughly equal.

[Fuzz]

I think if life can spontaneously occur anywhere, it's likely some intelligence will exist. If you look at Earth, we know creatures like octopus, dolphins, even some birds show signs of intelligence.

More important, perhaps, is having the physical adaptations to take advantage of that intelligence, which in turn increases their intelligence. Being locked in a dolphin body with fins instead of hands greatly limits the ability to create tools, and being in water limits the ability to make use of things like fire. So there may be intelligent life out there, but it isn't building rockets and radios.

In my opinion, if we detect life anywhere else, no matter how basic, odds are there is also intelligent life out there. So back to a point I made awhile ago, we are either alone, or there are countless others. Currently we only have evidence of the former, so any other pronouncements are not supported by fact.