Official WWE/ECW/WCW/TNA talk, or whatever v2

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I wouldn't mind a WCW Thunder or WWF Sunday Night Heat style show. I suppose AEW Dark sort of fills that niche but I always liked Heat and to a lesser extent Thunder because they showcased the midcard stuff while also having enough storyline advancement of the main event stuff to make it worth tuning into.

You know what show is a bit under rated, is main event because they have some really good jewel matches with people not being used a lot on the Roster. Not a lot of storylines or goofiness, but you get good 20 minute matches.

[Ozy_Flame]

Great points Cap.

Regarding AEW, I want them to stop hiring any more male in-ring performers. I agree their roster is over-bloated, and people are getting lost in the shuffle. I don't know what to make of guys like Omega, the Bucks, Archer, Cage, and others when there is no discernible direction. There's also guys getting air time that just don't have the name value (yet).

Ironically some of the best guys were the originals in AEW and getting the best reactions. Luchasaurus is monster over, Best Friends are a great draw, and Orange Cassidy is basically white hot. They don't need to add more guys to the mix, especially with no house shows and one televised event per week.

Moxley/Omega/Cody are who they should be running with as their premier talent. The only problem is that without Jericho, they need a top heel. None of them can pull that off IMO. Mox is too hot with the IWC, Omega is a wrestling darling that people wouldn't buy "bad attitude" from, and Cody is too much "Dusty's Boy" to be turned heel at this point. I am not sure where they could find a replacement. Archer would seem like the best option to me as he's intimidating and wrestles violently (in the good kind of way).

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When you look at the upcoming workers, Kross (Great already) Priest, Dijakovic,

Man, Priest and Dijakovic have done absolutely nothing for me anytime I've watched them. Also, is Priest still doing his garbage version of the Crossroads?

When I look at the main rosters for Smackdown and Raw, its really time for even more trimming to make room. I honestly think its really time for a youth movement on botht he Smackdown and Raw Rosters, and maybe a roster shrinkage.

I have a bias, but I'd waive bye to Nia and let her go to AEW.

I don't think AEW would sign Nia, TBH. AEW's strategy has been to sign talent that can work but weren't given a fair shot in WWE. I think they've gotten it wrong on a few of them as, with the extra exposure, you're seeing why Vince didn't bother pushing guys like Brodie Lee and Shawn Spears, but I don't think the strategy is inherently flawed. Nia is the exact opposite. She's been afforded multiple opportunities AND she's crappy, unsafe worker. Plus, Nylah Rose already fills the monster heel role on the women's side and they can theoretically start using Awesome Kong again if she's done with GLOW.

On AEW even with two shows, that roster is way over bloated. they need to really trim things down on the men's side.

I disagree with this to an extent. I like the way AEW features different storylines and wrestlers every week. It makes a Mox or Omega match more "must-see TV" when they're not on there every week. I find it also helps with the PPVs because you don't have the issues that WWE has where the talent face each other every week either in singles or tag matches to the point that the PPV blow-off doesn't seem unique.

And as much as I lover Jericho, its time to transition him away from the ring.

They've pretty much started this already. He's been on commentary quite a lot and is only wrestling about once a month. They've also started planting the seeds for a Jericho/Sammy feud, which I think has the potential to be awesome as long as Sammy goes over.

Don't sign anymore AEW castoffs. Hire someone that can professionally filter what's going on in the writing department with guys like the Bucks and Rhodes and Omega. Start cutting back on the factions, simplify the storylines and don't do goofy gimmicky insider joke stuff that they think is funny for 6 months.

I actually don't mind the faction stuff in theory. When they originally started, it was very New Japan-esque but now it's kind of a cross between the Japanese stuff and the cheesy North American faction stuff. The cool thing about the Japanese faction style is you can easily freshen up by just switching guys around. NJPW has done this quite a bit whenever they've had Bullet Club expel members, Chaos members turn on each other, etc.

I do think the Inner Circle have lost their way quite a bit. They were booked really well to start things and were an insanely vicious heel faction and now they've basically become The Elite Lite, with worse comedy bits. I'd have them expel Jericho and install Sammy as the leader.

And as I said, I think they need to turn The Elite heel as well. Cody and The Bucks are much more natural heels, and Omega can work either way. The big problem though, as I mentioned, is the lack of star babybaces to counter them. And you run into the problem of having three major heel factions (four if you count Death Triangle when PAC and the Lucha Bros return).

I do like all of the face factions (Best Friends, Jurassic Express, and SCU) but all three have their own issues. Best Friends are hard to take seriously because they've largely been booked as a comedy act and none of the three are great on the mic. SCU are great workers and pretty solid on the mic but all three are getting fairly long in the tooth. Jurassic Express are fun but Marko is obviously a jobber, Jungle Boy is still developing, and Luchasaurus is fun but not a a main event guy.

Oh and its time to change the commentary team up, its just no good, and pray that Heyman gets released.

I actually really like Excalibur for the most party, and Jericho is entertaining as hell when he's on commentary, but it's time to put JR out to pasture and have Schiavone stick to interviews.

[CaptainCrunch]

I've never thought of Schiavone as any good. In the book death of WCW they talked about how much Heenan loathed the guy because he was constantly saying and doing stupid things. Go back and watch his work in WCW, he was the drizzlings.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The only problem is that without Jericho, they need a top heel. None of them can pull that off IMO.

MJF can absolutely fill that role if they keep heating him up. I actually think he's almost a better heel than Jericho is right now.

Mox is too hot with the IWC, Omega is a wrestling darling that people wouldn't buy "bad attitude" from, and Cody is too much "Dusty's Boy" to be turned heel at this point. I am not sure where they could find a replacement. Archer would seem like the best option to me as he's intimidating and wrestles violently (in the good kind of way).

Omega worked heel for the majority of his best years in NJPW and Cody played a great a narcissistic heel when he was touring the independent scene. I think they absolutely could get over as heels if they do a turn correctly. The only way it works though is if the Inner Circle breaks up because otherwise you have two monster heel factions and no top level face groups to oppose them.

[Ozy_Flame]

Omega could get over as a heel the same likelihood Cena could after he turned face - it's just not going to happen. He's too popular with the hardcores, he'll always get the anit-hero vibes, just like Moxley. Cody in any other promotion can be a heel, but not AEW in my opinion. He's got "Dusty's Boy" rub and everyone knows his mantra is building a promotion. He's not a convincing heel when he's VP - not like a MacMahon could be.

Guevara, MJF, and Archer are my top AEW picks for next top heel. Everyone else just isn't there yet or doesn't have that natural rub.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Omega could get over as a heel the same likelihood Cena could after he turned face - it's just not going to happen. He's too popular with the hardcores, he'll always get the anit-hero vibes, just like Moxley. Cody in any other promotion can be a heel, but not AEW in my opinion. He's got "Dusty's Boy" rub and everyone knows his mantra is building a promotion. He's not a convincing heel when he's VP - not like a MacMahon could be.

Personally I'm getting a little sick of Cody's "Dusty's Boy" stuff, so I tend to believe he could completely amp that up to nauseating levels if he wanted to go heel. You might be right about Omega. It's definitely easier to get over as a heel in NJPW when you're a gaijin.

[Muta]

MJF is my favourite heel right now. What a piece of ####. That kid has world champion written all over him.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Muta

MJF is my favourite heel right now. What a piece of ####. That kid has world champion written all over him.

His ridiculous injury vignettes were outstanding. He's just such a ######.

[Ozy_Flame]

Yeah he's incredible. I can't wait until he feuds with Darby Allin and calls him out as an arthouse tool

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Personally I'm getting a little sick of Cody's "Dusty's Boy" stuff, so I tend to believe he could completely amp that up to nauseating levels if he wanted to go heel. You might be right about Omega. It's definitely easier to get over as a heel in NJPW when you're a gaijin.

I'm still not a big Cody fan, and don't see him as a top face.

To me he's best as an Upper Mid Card guy, and I'm starting to think he's protecting himself a bit too much in AEW.

Beating Archer mostly clean and squashing his build, this "I'll defend my title every week and shake your hand after" thing, IMO he really is showing that he just wants to be the AEW John Cena.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Beating Archer mostly clean and squashing his build, this "I'll defend my title every week and shake your hand after" thing, IMO he really is showing that he just wants to be the AEW John Cena.

More accurately, TNAs Jarrett. (Edit - AEWs Jarrett but I am leaving that mix-up there cause it's the way AEW will go if they let booking like this happen long term)

This is why I have no issue with Omega sitting back for now. He's letting the brand build it self up around people other than himself. He'll still be huge when he jumps to the top of the card, and once he's there he will probably stay there (deservedly so). Alternatively you have Cody doing the same #### he mocked Triple H for doing all while having half of the credibility and twice the pull in the company he's using to catapult himself.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

More accurately, TNAs Jarrett. (Edit - AEWs Jarrett but I am leaving that mix-up there cause it's the way AEW will go if they let booking like this happen long term)

This is why I have no issue with Omega sitting back for now. He's letting the brand build it self up around people other than himself. He'll still be huge when he jumps to the top of the card, and once he's there he will probably stay there (deservedly so). Alternatively you have Cody doing the same #### he mocked Triple H for doing all while having half of the credibility and twice the pull in the company he's using to catapult himself.

I think it was smart to have him win the TNT title and start defending it weekly to build it up a bit but I agree that how he got there was counterproductive. But yeah, overall I'm pretty tired with the Cody Cena gimmick.

EDIT: I will say though that Triple H would have never put MJF over the way Cody did.

[KelVarnsen]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1271599572775653381

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by rubecube

EDIT: I will say though that Triple H would have never put MJF over the way Cody did.

HHH put people over all the time, just not the right people when it would matter most. Cody is obviously no where near "reign of terror" HHH but he's certainly on track.

[Crown Royal]

I had little doubt New Day would do something. Seeing E talk about this and cry during their podcast was heartbreaking.

[CaptainCrunch]

I was talking about Main Event and they had a fun little match between Nattie and Liv that was really really good.

[Inferno]

I did a sim of Backlash using WWE 2K19. For the women's tag match I had to just have a 6 woman singles match since it doesn't have a 3 team tag match.

Apollo Cruise def. Andrade via countout
Iiconics(Peyton Royce) def Alexa Bliss/Nikki Cross & Sasha Banks/Bayley
Jeff Hardy def Sheamus
Miz & Morrison def Braun Stroman
Asuka def Nia Jax via submission
Viking Raiders def Street Profits
Drew McIntyre def Bobby Lashley
Edge def. Randy Orton

[CaptainCrunch]

Backlash Results.


First of all the card


Edge vs Orton
McIntyre(C) vs Lashley
Strowman(C) vs the Miz and Morrison
Asuka(C) vs Nia Jax
Hardy vs Sheamus
Bayley and Banks (C) vs The Iconics and CrossBliss
Crews(C) vs Andrade
Street Profits(C) vs Viking Raiders


Banks and Bayley retain, Banks pins Bliss with the whacky rollup.

Booking a three way match whether its tag or singles with two heels should be easy booking. The two heels beat up on the face, and then eventually screw each other over. That didn't happen all that much tonight as instead of building tension to when the heels turn on each other, the two heel teams just continually turned on each other. There were some good elements in this match. Cross pulled off a nifty Bulldog clothesline move that I liked. Bliss and Cross threw in their version of the Dudly Death Drop.



The match was a little sloppy with some timing issues or uncomfortable pauses where the wrestlers didn't know what to do. Also just a couple of nitpicks


1) The heroic face diving for the tag is played out, and it looks like crap where the face dives for the desparation tag but her opponents are lying on the other side of the ring. It looks silly.



2) I was watching Tough Enough Season 2, and Regal came in to coach. One of the students threw another student off the ropes and stood there waiting for the tackle. Regal ripped him because what kind of idiot would stand there and wait for a tackle. This happened in this match where two wrestlers were brawling on the apron, and another wrestler did a cross body knocking all three to the floor, but the two wrestlers were staring at the third for a good 5 seconds so it looked bad.


I've commented on Bayley saying that Kai is doing the same style of heel so much better, but over the last few weeks Bayley has done a great job of being a heel, and onto of that her verbal work in the ring is awesome now.


I was expecting Bliss to turn on Cross after the loss or the Iconics to break up, that didn't happen.


Bliss is very athletic, but they didn't let her show that as a heel. But they're letting her open up her move set. But she's still better as a heel.



It wasn't a bad match, it was just disjointed.



2.5/5

[CaptainCrunch]

Sheamus defeats Jeff Hardy

I've never been a huge fan of Jeff Hardy, because he's always been short on the story telling side of the business. He's that guy that shows in a bunch of wow worthy moments and stunts but in the end you feel like it was an exhibition more then anything else. I kind of thought this angle had some potential, it was kind of a retelling of the awesome Punk vs Jericho straight edge storyline.



While this match had some decent moments with some major botches. It really missed the story telling aspect. Instead of a passionate brawl with Hardy going hard after Sheamus, instead it felt like a errr wrestling match. If there was any match that really called for a cage or something it was this one. Instead at the end of it, it was a good wrestling match, but poor story telling and resolution. This felt almost like a blow off of a feud that never got interesting and lacked any kind of vendetta.


Technically it could have gotten a higher mark from me, but the story telling and execution dragged it down.


2 out of 5.