The Stephan trial and evidence-based healthcare

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

A lot of this stuff goes unchecked at the parenting level. The Internet just makes it worse. Look at the revival of the doula/midwife "profession." Absolutely insane what these morons get away with telling pregnant women.

Can you expand on this please.

My understanding is that a midwife and a doula are not one in the same. One is more medical/science based (midwife) & one is more crystals and aura based (doula).

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Can you expand on this please.

why?

[peter12]

I think that a lot of the time there is a presumption of expertise from doula's or midwives based on their proximity to the mother. I have read, and experienced first-hand that they often feel compelled to give advice based on their anecdotal experience, but with very little recourse to medical advice or diagnostic technology.

A good anecdote from my recent experience: a friend of mine and her husband have different views on birth. He is a science teacher, and she is more of a home hippie type. She insisted on both a doula and midwife. Later in the pregnancy, the doula came over to their place on a Saturday to spend some time with the mother-to-be and give her stomach a massage. She said that based on how the baby felt in the womb that the fetus might have breached. My friend called the midwife, who came over, and confirmed the doula's "diagnosis."

My friend panics, and the doula/midwife combo, instead of taking her for an ultrasound, immediately start going through some of the less-invasive treatments for a breached baby.

On Monday, my friend's husband took her to the doctor, who sent her for an ultrasound, which gave her the all-clear.

Both of the above are being used increasingly as a substitute, and not a complement, to obstetrics medicine.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm convinced that one of the reasons why one of my Aunts died was because she tried to self diagnose herself by reading the internet and listening to her stupid friends when she started to get sick and didn't go and get checked out by a for real doctor. Her friends and her looked up her symptoms on the Internet and usually those searches go right to the quack sights selling whatever garbage that they sell, and their ads are designed to work on the scared, stupid and vulnerable.

So by the time she loaded up on that garbage and spent money and listened to her stupid friend and found that she wasn't feeling better, she finally went to a real doctor and by that time the cancer had moved to her vital organs.

By the way did I mention that even though I keep saying go and see a for real doctor, everytime I see one I get awful news or news that scares the ever loving hell out of me.

But the most awesome thing that I've ever heard from a doctor was when he was muttering about a chiropractor to me and basically said that they're one step from offering a happy ending with every 10 visits to get business.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think that a lot of the time there is a presumption of expertise from doula's or midwives based on their proximity to the mother. I have read, and experienced first-hand that they often feel compelled to give advice based on their anecdotal experience, but with very little recourse to medical advice or diagnostic technology.

A good anecdote from my recent experience: a friend of mine and her husband have different views on birth. He is a science teacher, and she is more of a home hippie type. She insisted on both a doula and midwife. Later in the pregnancy, the doula came over to their place on a Saturday to spend some time with the mother-to-be and give her stomach a massage. She said that based on how the baby felt in the womb that the fetus might have breached. My friend called the midwife, who came over, and confirmed the doula's "diagnosis."

My friend panics, and the doula/midwife combo, instead of taking her for an ultrasound, immediately start going through some of the less-invasive treatments for a breached baby.

On Monday, my friend's husband took her to the doctor, who sent her for an ultrasound, which gave her the all-clear.

Both of the above are being used increasingly as a substitute, and not a complement, to obstetrics medicine.

It is fair to say there are nutcases in all professions. I know a buddy that hurt his low back and the GP told him to lay in bed for 4 weeks and do nothing.

My mother was a midwife for 20+ years after working in emergency rooms as an RN.

[burn_this_city]

Midwives are fine so long as they aren't pushing unnecessarily risky bull#### like home birthing.

[keratosis]

[Vulcan]

1) These parents deserve a stiff penalty. Public opinion seems to mainly agree. However, this same sentiment would almost certainly not apply if the defendants were indigenous. Why is this the case?

What do indigenous people have to do with this case?

[habernac]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 5m5 minutes ago

Just got word that the verdict is in for the Stephan trial, everyone now entering courtroom.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Midwives are fine so long as they aren't pushing unnecessarily risky bull#### like home birthing.

And bring their own catchers glove.

[burn_this_city]

Please be guilty.

[CroFlames]

I never heard of a doula until I opened this thread.

Reminds me of the ghouls and zombies in my video games.

[CaptainCrunch]

I have a gut feeling that they'll be found not guilty due to the judges instructions.

[habernac]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 25s25 seconds ago

We're delayed getting into the courtroom for Stephan verdict. Should be soon. Family and friends hugging one another, tense mood here.

[habernac]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 11s11 seconds ago

Judge says this is a very emotional and controversial case, must understand this is a court of law. 1/2

[habernac]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 11s12 seconds ago

2/2 anyone who does not understand this should leave courtroom now, he says.

[habernac]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 13s13 seconds ago

Jurors now filing in to courtroom.

[burn_this_city]

Guilty

[habernac]

Valerie Fortney ‏@ValFortney · 10s10 seconds ago

Verdict: guilty for both

[chemgear]

Guilty.