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Old 09-15-2020, 10:50 AM   #21
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This could very well be what finally sinks Florida and Arizona. But I suppose that Seattle money might hold teams over for another year.
Florida doesn't have any real, paying fans in normal times. I don't think this would hurt them at all. They'll survive on their dumb tv deal that pays millions for no one to watch and other sources of revenue from people not watching their games. I always assumed they just existed as a money laundering front anyway.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:52 AM   #22
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Florida doesn't have any real, paying fans in normal times. I don't think this would hurt them at all. They'll survive on their dumb tv deal that pays millions for no one to watch and other sources of revenue from people not watching their games. I always assumed they just existed as a money laundering front anyway.
It's arena gate receipts that keep them afloat and I wonder how badly that is impacting them right now.

The rumour pre-covid was Florida ownership wanted tallonnto cut 10m from the payroll, who knows what the situation is now without Taylor swift rolling through town every month.
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:22 PM   #23
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Have details ever come out about limiting bonuses/frontloading/backloading of contracts?

Rich teams can backload deals as much as possible

A lot of players baked reduced compensation this season into their current deals as lockout protection, so most teams have a lower real $ to AAV ratio this year than normal.


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Why does Seattle pay a 650 million expansion fee when they could buy Florida and Arizona and combine them for 610 M ?

Florida was worth $310 M and Arizona $300M BEFORE the shutdown.
1. You always have to add a $150M+ relocation fee. Before getting to 32 teams, that number would probably have been even higher.

2. There is lots of skepticism about the $650M figure. The league/other owners have obvious reasons for wanting it reported that way. There's probably a round about way of justifying that number, but it's unlikely that Seattle cuts immediate/direct cheque(s) totalling $650M.
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Old 09-15-2020, 01:14 PM   #24
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Found an answer to my question re: salary variance

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Salary variances on standard player contracts will also change, particularly with multi-year and front-loaded salary structures. Under the previous CBA, the year with the lowest salary could not be less than 50 per cent of the year with the highest salary. That number has dropped to 35 per cent.
https://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke...agreement.html

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Old 09-15-2020, 04:22 PM   #25
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If a team traded for Lucic right now I think all they'd have to pay him over the next 2 seasons would be $7,750,000.

He's still owed $10,000,000 on his contract, but the oilers are paying $2,250,000 of that ($750,000 x 3)
Retained salary trades are percentage based to account for front/back loaded contracts, the Oilers retained 12.5%. That means with $10,000,000 remaining the Oilers are only paying $1,250,000 in actual dollars.
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:04 PM   #26
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. Depending on the size of the market and the structure of the revenue streams (i.e. do they get all of the money from parking, concessions, etc.) teams generate between $1.5 million and $3 million per home date.
Will the 2020-21 season even go ahead without fans? If the numbers from the athletic are close, using 2 million/home game, game day revenue is 2.5 billion, roughly half of the 4.8 billion HRR. (2m*41 home games*31 teams). If the season is cancelled, will they just push all the contracts out a year, making each player a year older, further complicating the job of a GM?

If these numbers are out to lunch, I’m willing to be corrected.

https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/
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Old 09-15-2020, 05:18 PM   #27
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Will the 2020-21 season even go ahead without fans? If the numbers from the athletic are close, using 2 million/home game, game day revenue is 2.5 billion, roughly half of the 4.8 billion HRR. (2m*41 home games*31 teams). If the season is cancelled, will they just push all the contracts out a year, making each player a year older, further complicating the job of a GM?

If these numbers are out to lunch, I’m willing to be corrected.

https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/
Those numbers seem more like playoff numbers, but I could be mistaken. But the season has to happen due to TV contracts.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:09 PM   #28
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Those numbers seem more like playoff numbers, but I could be mistaken. But the season has to happen due to TV contracts.
I suspect streaming revenue is way down. Likewise for ads. The games really aren’t very exciting without an atmosphere of fans. Its high quality men’s league viewing. Wouldn’t be surprised if Rogers pulls the plug so they don’t have to pay to produce a full season of this.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:12 PM   #29
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I highly doubt Rogers could simply "pull the plug" on a $5.232 billion contract.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:42 PM   #30
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I highly doubt Rogers could simply "pull the plug" on a $5.232 billion contract.
It would be shocking if the contract didn’t have a provision that allows either party to assert that circumstances out of its control prevent it from meeting the terms of the bargain. Or alternatively asserting that the other side is not delivering its end of the bargain.

Whatever these current games are, they are clearly not the product anticipated by Rogers in its contract.

I can’t even begin to imagine what a snore fest mid season games would be like in this set up
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:03 PM   #31
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It would be shocking if the contract didn’t have a provision that allows either party to assert that circumstances out of its control prevent it from meeting the terms of the bargain. Or alternatively asserting that the other side is not delivering its end of the bargain.

Whatever these current games are, they are clearly not the product anticipated by Rogers in its contract.

I can’t even begin to imagine what a snore fest mid season games would be like in this set up
And the NHL says "we're providing NHL hockey games...like it says in the contract".

Caveat emptor.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:19 PM   #32
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And the NHL says "we're providing NHL hockey games...like it says in the contract".

Caveat emptor.
And there is the argument. Probably worth fighting over if you are Rogers. A few million in legal fees is well worth it in these circumstances
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:42 PM   #33
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It would be shocking if the contract didn’t have a provision that allows either party to assert that circumstances out of its control prevent it from meeting the terms of the bargain. Or alternatively asserting that the other side is not delivering its end of the bargain.

Whatever these current games are, they are clearly not the product anticipated by Rogers in its contract.

I can’t even begin to imagine what a snore fest mid season games would be like in this set up
Force Majure is common language in contracts. Still doesn’t mean litigation is avoided, but this pretty much fits that bill. That said Rogers would argue that the agreement can still continue and site playoffs as examples.

I still think from credibly perspective that they go ahead with the games.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:47 PM   #34
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Will the 2020-21 season even go ahead without fans? If the numbers from the athletic are close, using 2 million/home game, game day revenue is 2.5 billion, roughly half of the 4.8 billion HRR. (2m*41 home games*31 teams). If the season is cancelled, will they just push all the contracts out a year, making each player a year older, further complicating the job of a GM?

If these numbers are out to lunch, I’m willing to be corrected.

https://theathletic.com/1672688/2020...ach-home-game/
A regular season without fans is really, really bad news for the NHL.

It’s a very legitimate question. How late can you start, how short a season can you have are the big questions. I do believe there comes a point where it is in no one’s best interest to start a season.

It’s why the whole argument centered around “skip the bubble idea for the playoffs and focus on next year” never made much sense. It was that or nothing.

Would allowing arenas at 25% capacity be a tipping point?
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:58 PM   #35
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Force Majure is common language in contracts. Still doesn’t mean litigation is avoided, but this pretty much fits that bill. That said Rogers would argue that the agreement can still continue and site playoffs as examples.

I still think from credibly perspective that they go ahead with the games.
Rogers won’t hesitate to litigate if it is losing money on producing these games. What’s a few million, or more frankly, if it buys an opportunity to get out of losing millions more producing a show that hardly anyone watches.

Litigation is just good business sometimes. This would be one of them.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:47 AM   #36
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If the league can shut down for a year due to a lockout, how is this any different revenue-wise? Why is this so much harder for teams to bear? So far, they've only missed about 15% of the regular season and managed to cobble together playoffs. Surely they can miss next season, or have an abbreviated season and be fine.

Or is the bigger issue (compounding issue) that all of these stadiums aren't holding any events at all?
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:00 PM   #37
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Rogers won’t hesitate to litigate if it is losing money on producing these games. What’s a few million, or more frankly, if it buys an opportunity to get out of losing millions more producing a show that hardly anyone watches.

Litigation is just good business sometimes. This would be one of them.

Rogers may be dumb, but they aren’t that dumb (to pursue a case with zero % chance of winning). Weak take.


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Old 09-16-2020, 07:34 PM   #38
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If the league can shut down for a year due to a lockout, how is this any different revenue-wise? Why is this so much harder for teams to bear? So far, they've only missed about 15% of the regular season and managed to cobble together playoffs. Surely they can miss next season, or have an abbreviated season and be fine.

Or is the bigger issue (compounding issue) that all of these stadiums aren't holding any events at all?
This time you have players who still want to be paid and a valid labour agreement in place. In the lockouts there was no labour agreement and enough players were willing to forego salaries to get a better deal.
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Old 09-16-2020, 07:58 PM   #39
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This time you have players who still want to be paid and a valid labour agreement in place. In the lockouts there was no labour agreement and enough players were willing to forego salaries to get a better deal.
Yeah... I forgot about the whole players not getting paid part. Duh.
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:14 PM   #40
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Rogers may be dumb, but they aren’t that dumb (to pursue a case with zero % chance of winning). Weak take.


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Yeah cuz what’s being played now is exactly what Rogers paid billions for. The exclusive right to broadcast high quality men’s league tournament in an empty arena with a bit of emotion but not very much. These playoffs are LMAO. And if they try this for a full season it will be a farce.

Good thing Rogers isn’t paying you for legal advice LOL
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