09-22-2020, 11:39 AM
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#141
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashasx
Somebody added Adam Fox to the all rookie forward list.
Jonathan Willis and Matt Vensel both left MacKinnon off their Hart ballots.
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That was the biggest shocker to me of them all. Willis has been ingrained in the analytics community for 15 or so years, and as long as I can remember calls things as they are, especially as it relates to two-way play, even in the face of criticism from the Oilers and their fanbase.
To see him vote Draisaitl number one on his ballot, based solely on Draisaitl leading the scoring race by his own admission, while leaving MacKinnon off his ballot entirely due to mystery (AKA bull####) analytics is disgraceful. To be honest, I can't believe he isn't getting lambasted by his analytics peers for that.
Very surprising to see such blatant ballot manipulation from someone like him.
__________________
"I think the eye test is still good, but analytics can sure give you confirmation: what you see...is that what you really believe?"
Scotty Bowman, 0 NHL games played
"You ain't gotta like me. You're just mad 'cause I tell it how it is and you tell it how it might be."
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09-22-2020, 11:52 AM
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#142
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Franchise Player
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Really happy they make these ballots public. Maybe these “writers” should each need to write an explanation of their ballots.
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09-22-2020, 11:53 AM
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#143
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First Line Centre
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I hadn't heard of that Vensel guy but looks like his was an honest mistake at least, leaving Willis as the only voter to intentionally omit MacKinnon.
https://twitter.com/user/status/1308218601506254850
https://twitter.com/user/status/1308219774430859264
__________________
"I think the eye test is still good, but analytics can sure give you confirmation: what you see...is that what you really believe?"
Scotty Bowman, 0 NHL games played
"You ain't gotta like me. You're just mad 'cause I tell it how it is and you tell it how it might be."
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09-22-2020, 11:59 AM
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#144
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Franchise Player
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I don't know what it means to fudge your ballot, but is he saying he forgot who Mackinnon was or didn't realize how good a season he had?
Guess I'd say this particular writer likely doesn't take his voting as seriously as he claims.
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09-22-2020, 12:11 PM
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#145
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Franchise Player
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Wtf kind of explanation is that? You voted for the Hart trophy while at a red light or something without giving it second thought? How the #### do you "forget" MacKinnon?
This is getting more and more ridiculous.
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09-22-2020, 12:16 PM
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#146
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Looooooooooooooch
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Draisaitl was clearly the most deserved player for the award. Shouldn't have even been a competition. I mean in all fairness, if the NHL wasn't so biased against Edmonton, they'd proactivity award the Hart to Draisaitl for the next 5 years as well.
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09-22-2020, 12:40 PM
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#148
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Lifetime In Suspension
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Colorado media (well the media that’s paid to care about hockey) is livid that Mackinnon didn’t win. Good, cry more.
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09-22-2020, 01:34 PM
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#149
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum PEI
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I don't think I agreed with any ballot, including Dom's, but I respect his thought process. Mirtle had a pretty good ballot, as did Drance.
I think the only objectively acceptable players to have in your top 3 were Panarin, MacKinnon, Hellebuyck and Josi, personally.
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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09-23-2020, 01:13 AM
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#150
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Lifetime Suspension
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How do you forget about MacKinnon? I call BS, unless you know zero about hockey you don't do that.
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09-23-2020, 01:37 AM
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#151
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Franchise Player
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LOL he ''forgot'' Mackinnon. What a filthy liar.
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09-23-2020, 06:40 AM
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#152
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Fernando Valley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler
Hmmm, I didn't take Burke for a complete idiot, but...
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I thought Burke was a good addition to the franchise as he cleaned things up for Treliving to come in but the more I hear this man talk the more I think he's one of the biggest dinosaurs in the league and a mediocre talent evaluator. He was one of the best at making trades but everything else is just bad.
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09-23-2020, 07:52 AM
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#153
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntingwhale
LOL he ''forgot'' Mackinnon. What a filthy liar.
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This seems a little harsh.
Maybe, in his analysis he had decide NM was going to be 2nd, say, and stop analyzing it and then when he actually filled in the ballot thought he had already put him in. I have done this sort of thing. I can't remember the number of times I have filled out a lineup card and forgot the pitcher, or my kid, or something just based on thinking I had already covered that person, position, whatever. The reason doesn't really matter, let's give this guy, and people in general a little bit of the benefit of the doubt and be a little forgiving and we may all be a little happier. Maybe? 
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09-23-2020, 08:09 AM
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#154
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnum PEI
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I don't know why anyone pays for The Athletic if this is the type of writer they have on staff. How do you leave Coutourier off the Selke ballot because of "defense", or if this is what your analytics tells you then something is wrong.
Hart Trophy should just change it's name to Art Ross #2. It has been given to the leading scorer forever so it isn't a surprise that Draisatl got the award. He is tough to play against in the offensive zone and probably earned it based on how the voting usually is done.
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09-23-2020, 08:26 AM
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#155
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First Line Centre
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Seems the voting is more about journalists getting their 5 minutes of fame to explain their 'advanced' assessment which really is more about getting clicks.
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09-23-2020, 08:36 AM
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#156
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Okotoks
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That guy literally said he only watched MacKinnon play one game. Why are you voting on a trophy that is awarded based on an entire season of play if you are only watching one game?
There should be some minimum requirements in order to vote such as:
Watched player X play minimum 5 games
Watched every team play minimum 5 games
Checked on CalgaryPuck to see their viewpoints.
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09-23-2020, 09:19 AM
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#157
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cKy
That guy literally said he only watched MacKinnon play one game. Why are you voting on a trophy that is awarded based on an entire season of play if you are only watching one game?
There should be some minimum requirements in order to vote such as:
Watched player X play minimum 5 games
Watched every team play minimum 5 games
Checked on CalgaryPuck to see their viewpoints.
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To clarify he said he only watched him play one game "in person".
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09-23-2020, 09:58 AM
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#158
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beatle17
Hart Trophy should just change it's name to Art Ross #2. It has been given to the leading scorer forever so it isn't a surprise that Draisatl got the award. He is tough to play against in the offensive zone and probably earned it based on how the voting usually is done.
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Sadly I can think of a notable exception.
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09-23-2020, 10:19 AM
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#159
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Springbank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Brew
Sadly I can think of a notable exception.
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Yeah but *didn’t make the POs*... oh, wait.
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09-23-2020, 10:28 AM
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#160
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebot
Seems the voting is more about journalists getting their 5 minutes of fame to explain their 'advanced' assessment which really is more about getting clicks.
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Still a marked improvement over taking a quick look at everyone's season end point totals. This should be the hardest award to figure out and I like the idea of journos pulling the criteria in different directions, even if motivated by self promotion.
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