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Old 08-28-2019, 11:53 AM   #41
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Typically, when 30+ players start declining, they get progressively worse, not better so my expectations for Lucic are set very low.
Everyone's are. He only needs to be better than Neal was last year, and chances of that occurring seem quite good.
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:53 AM   #42
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Maybe Peters meant Johnny and monny would be demoted to the third line
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:54 AM   #43
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Typically, when 30+ players start declining, they get progressively worse, not better so my expectations for Lucic are set very low.
Lucic is the same age as Neal. Again, I would rather have Lucic in that scenario with how ineffective and damaging Neal was last year.
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:54 AM   #44
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You are both right. Johnny and Monnie are the fixtures. But the addition of a fairly fast, defensive minded, strong forechecking guy like Lindy really put the line over the top last season. I think if you move him off (say to play centre on another line), you need someone like him. Frankly, Frolik, Dube, Mangiapane or Bennett fit the description more than Lucic.
You make an accurate assessment of Lindholm IMO. But no one is suggesting that Lucic would be a permanent replacement for him on the top line, simply a periodic replacement.

If it were permanent, then yes, I think you do need a fast, defensively sound replacement. But he isn't being replaced.
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:56 AM   #45
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Lucic is the same age as Neal. Again, I would rather have Lucic in that scenario with how ineffective and damaging Neal was last year.
Actually, Lucic is a year younger
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Old 08-28-2019, 11:57 AM   #46
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Maybe Peters meant Johnny and monny would be demoted to the third line
When you listen to Peters's interview it is clear that what he is talking about is employing Lucic with Gaudreau and Monahan only in special circumstances as a potential deterrent in the event that other teams are taking liberties with Gaudreau. He was pretty clear that this would not be a regular deployment, and stated that he sees Lucic fitting into "the middle six," preferably with a right-hand centre.
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:12 PM   #47
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When you listen to Peters's interview it is clear that what he is talking about is employing Lucic with Gaudreau and Monahan only in special circumstances as a potential deterrent in the event that other teams are taking liberties with Gaudreau. He was pretty clear that this would not be a regular deployment, and stated that he sees Lucic fitting into "the middle six," preferably with a right-hand centre.
If I was playing the Flames, I'd take liberties with Johnny to ensure Lucic gets moved to the first line.
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:23 PM   #48
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If I was playing the Flames, I'd take liberties with Johnny to ensure Lucic gets moved to the first line.
We see teams targeting Gaudreau constantly and it is barely effective. Besides, I suspect that Peters is not so predictable that he would play into what you are attempting to do.
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:45 PM   #49
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You make an accurate assessment of Lindholm IMO. But no one is suggesting that Lucic would be a permanent replacement for him on the top line, simply a periodic replacement.

If it were permanent, then yes, I think you do need a fast, defensively sound replacement. But he isn't being replaced.
Oh, I never meant to suggest he'd be a fixture on the line. Just spot duty.
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Old 08-28-2019, 12:58 PM   #50
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If I was playing the Flames, I'd take liberties with Johnny to ensure Lucic gets moved to the first line.
Im going to assume that you’d be willing to drop the gloves and go toe to toe with Lucic as well? How many of the guys taking liberties on Johnny do you think are willing to face that possibility?
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:05 PM   #51
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Im going to assume that you’d be willing to drop the gloves and go toe to toe with Lucic as well? How many of the guys taking liberties on Johnny do you think are willing to face that possibility?
Lucic has no problem throwing a shot or two at anyone even if they arent willing to drop the gloves. There is a reason people actually fear him on the ice.
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:21 PM   #52
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So I guess we want all the same type of players... everyone with speed and no one without it will do.

You know... Lucic has awesome.... no... AWESOME possession numbers, and if he can dig a puck out of the corner and get it to one of the our fast forwards... this could be huge. And how many times do all three forwards break out towards the offense zone where we need everyone up with the puck, usually a trailing player is a great asset here to punch in some junk goals on a broken play.

But all that is wishful thinking... the real thinking here.... NEAL did NOTHING for us last season and if all that Lucic does is offer us some more toughness, something that we clearly lacked as our one playoff round made it clear... than this trade puts us into a better position then before the trade - and NEAL's contract was a sunk cost... we can't just erase it (I wish we could) - but we got something at least we need and lacked.
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:35 PM   #53
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Lucic is the same age as Neal. Again, I would rather have Lucic in that scenario with how ineffective and damaging Neal was last year.
The better situation would be to have neither
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:38 PM   #54
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The better situation would be to have neither
Agreed, but the pressure was at its highest on July 19th, so the deal had to be done when it was done. Lucic was the only offer out there at the last minute.
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:43 PM   #55
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The better situation would be to have neither
And how do you propose that happens? Neal is a sunk cost, so it's either use assets to remove Neal and most likely still pay for some of his salary, or accept that the money is gone and find a player that can fill a need, however small that may be.
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:47 PM   #56
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The better situation would be to have neither
The better situation would be to have Crosby on the top line, with Kane on the RW with Johnny, and move Monahan to 2C between Marchand and Kucherov. And put Hedman with Gio.
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Old 08-28-2019, 02:07 PM   #57
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Lucic will not be playing with Johnny and Monny for extended periods of time.

It's just a terrible match.

Maybe on the PP, but Lucic didn't have a tom of success playing with McDavid on Edmonton's PP, I don't see this any different.

Lucic has gone from "there is no way the Flames would trade Neal for Lucic, as Lucic is the worse player in the league" to fans eagerly waiting for Lucic to suit up on a line with Johnny and Monny.
Who said that exactly? Eagerly?
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Old 08-28-2019, 02:30 PM   #58
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I am eager to see Lucic on the Flames. Who isn't eager?


Nobody knows how Lucic will REALLY do on the Flames. He may continue to regress at the same rate he was in Edmonton. That's fine. Not a positive, but fine considering who he is replacing in the lineup.


As for his lack of speed - this is really overblown. He will be fine. Being the fastest skater in Edmonton's camp (or whatever it was) is also misleading. Remember Keegan Kanzig? He was the fastest skater here as well IIRC - beating out Brodie in the mountain climbers. To me, that shows great top-end speed and the commitment to conditioning. Lucic (like Kanzig) lacked 'quickness', which is most assuredly more important in hockey - that first step or two to get to those loose pucks or to beat someone to a better position. Lucic doesn't have that - but that's ok.



Last season this team did awesome even with an anchor on the top line game in and game out for at least a shift or two. They had an anchor on the 2nd line for a long look. They had an anchor on the third line for the majority of the season. They had an anchor on the 2nd unit PP.


Lucic may not produce better than Neal, but all he has to be is, well, just 'not an anchor'. If he can be defensively responsible, be tough to play against in the corners and along the boards, get to the front of the net and be able to screen/cause commotion - that's a vast improvement already. Flames don't need Lucic to score - they need him to play effective minutes in areas that they have trouble in. Neal didn't help in any area - not a single area on the ice last season. This is an upgrade.


Of course Lucic is going to get some time on the top line - you really never know how it works or not unless you try it. Who knows? Maybe magic happens and Lucic clicks. I wouldn't bet on it, but stranger things can happen. Lucic can either continue to regress, or he can actually experience a bit of a resurgence with coming to a new team and getting out of that hell hole that is the Edmonton Oilers.



I am eager to see him on the ice, as I am eager to see how he fits in, how he helps, and if he improves or not. I am eager to see every player on the ice have a role and contributing too, in their own way.
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Old 08-28-2019, 02:46 PM   #59
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The better situation would be to have neither
Yep... I think everyone would agree, I know I certainly do... but we have what we have and I can at least slot Lucic in our lineup... as we progressed through last season... I had more and more trouble placing Neal on one of our four lines and I liked other combinations than any with Neal in there.

The mistake was made when we signed Neal... not when we traded him for Lucic. Are we better than before the trade - I think YES.
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Old 08-28-2019, 02:49 PM   #60
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Lucic isn't anywhere close to being the worst player in the league. Anyone who says so is buying into the memes a little too heavily.

By no stretch is he the ideal player, and his contract is atrocious, but he's a bottom-six forward who most teams would take at a substantially reduced salary.
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