The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[bax]

Originally Posted by Corral

Aside from the fact that it’s almost certain the flames have made him a fair offer that is worth more than most of us will ever earn in our lifetime. I suppose you are right there is no reason to crap on him

How do you know the Flames have made a fair offer?

And no offence, but it doesn’t matter what any of us make in comparison to Tkachuk. None of us are professional hockey players.

5 million over 2 years is probably more money than any of us will ever see, that doesn’t mean Tkachuk is in the wrong for not even considering that offer.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by bax

How do you know the Flames have made a fair offer?

And no offence, but it doesn’t matter what any of us make in comparison to Tkachuk. None of us are professional hockey players.

5 million over 2 years is probably more money than any of us will ever see, that doesn’t mean Tkachuk is in the wrong for not even considering that offer.

If you want to bang on about this, tell me - did Dubas negotiate good contracts with Matthews and Marner? Should other GMs accept that the market is what Dubas paid? Or should the market shake out to what it is, and have Dubas contracts be outlying data points?

What is the justification for allocating a significantly larger percentage of cap to “top players” that outpaces cap growth (and also noting that cap growth has outpaced HRR)?

I mean a real genuine business justification.

We have seen that the Cup winning team has spent in the range of 29-35 percent on their top 3 contracts. Dubas is all the way up at 41 percent.

He is not raising salaries in line with cap growth. He is exceeding it. There are no more total dollars available, so he is taking dollars away from third and fourth, and even second liners, and bottom pairing D. Is it going to work?

I assure you, other GMs are doubtless looking at this guy as an idiot. They are probably right. I believe that a team needs contributions from 4 lines to win.

I am sure the Flames have made a fair offer and I’d like you to explain why you think they haven’t.

[direwolf]

I hope he signs soon just so this thread can finally die.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by direwolf

I hope he signs soon just so this thread can finally die.

I think we all hope he signs soon, but I don’t expect it.

I think he comes from a stubborn family, and they are in his ear.

Tre should tell him to count his father’s Stanley Cup rings and get with the program.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by bax

How do you know the Flames have made a fair offer?

And no offence, but it doesn’t matter what any of us make in comparison to Tkachuk. None of us are professional hockey players.

5 million over 2 years is probably more money than any of us will ever see, that doesn’t mean Tkachuk is in the wrong for not even considering that offer.

I don’t know for sure if a fair offer is on the table but I can say that if there isn’t one by now treliving should be fired immediately. I think this whole conversation assumes that the team has put its offer on the table. For all the bluster here about how the team is screwed if its implemented a gio cap, the team is REALLY screwed if they haven’t made tkachuk a fair offer by now. Nobody would sign here if we dealt with players like that

[wired]

Anything over 7 mil for any term is over a fair offer, IMO. (I could see paying more if MT played like a beast in the playoffs)
Its kind of silly to pay a 4th year player over 8 mil per year.
Toronto just messed the pay scale up for the entire league.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Without knowing anything of substance related to the negotiations, it’s impossible to characterize one side as somehow more fair or reasonable than the other.

Absolutely.

However, there are some things that we do know...

For the GM:
1) it is not personal
2) it is not the only contract they are negotiating
3) in a cap world, they have a set amount to allocate, and paying too much for some assets means not enough for other assets
4) While there are always differences of opinion, they evaluate players rationally (not necessarily correctly, but rationally)

For the player:
1) No matter how much they try to keep it 'just business', it IS personal
2) They are only involved in their own contract (maximum of a few times over their career)
3) They are highly motivated to get as much as possible, regardless of what that means for the team, the cap, or the other players
4) It is human nature to over-value your own abilities

For these reasons it is not surprising that many fans assume the GM has the high ground, and is more likely to be the more reasonable side.

Then of course there is also the fact that the lower the number, the better it is for the team, so we, as fans, have a natural bias for cheaper deals, and thus want to side with the GM.

[bax]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

If you want to bang on about this, tell me - did Dubas negotiate good contracts with Matthews and Marner? Should other GMs accept that the market is what Dubas paid? Or should the market shake out to what it is, and have Dubas contracts be outlying data points?



What is the justification for allocating a significantly larger percentage of cap to “top players” that outpaces cap growth (and also noting that cap growth has outpaced HRR)?



I mean a real genuine business justification.



We have seen that the Cup winning team has spent in the range of 29-35 percent on their top 3 contracts. Dubas is all the way up at 41 percent.



He is not raising salaries in line with cap growth. He is exceeding it. There are no more total dollars available, so he is taking dollars away from third and fourth, and even second liners, and bottom pairing D. Is it going to work?



I assure you, other GMs are doubtless looking at this guy as an idiot. They are probably right. I believe that a team needs contributions from 4 lines to win.



I am sure the Flames have made a fair offer and I’d like you to explain why you think they haven’t.

Well first of all I haven’t mentioned Toronto in any of my posts so Dubas, Marner, and Matthews have absolutely nothing to do with it. As I stated earlier, I think the closest comparable contract signed so far this off season is Sebastian Aho. $8.5 million per over 5 years.

Second of all, I’m not saying that the Flames haven’t made a fair offer. I don’t know if they have or if they haven’t and neither does anybody else posting on here so everything here is speculation. What is “fair” will be subjective based on individual opinions. What I’m taking issue with is the assertion that Tkachuk should shut up and sign whatever is put in front of him because either way it’s millions of dollars. Since he hasn’t signed there are posts talking about not letting him sign at all, trading him, and generally vilifying him which I think is ridiculous.

Reading between the lines it makes sense to me that Tkachuk would want 5 years after seeing Matthews and Aho get it. I think the Flames are probably gunning for 7 so it makes sense to meet in the middle at 6.

I think Aho probably deserves a touch more money than Tkachuk, but if Tkachuk is foregoing an extra UFA year then 8.5 over 6 years strikes me as fair.

I highly doubt the Flames have offered this as I don’t believe they have the cap space to do that right now. Obviously a 3 year bridge deal would lower that number and change the structure of the deal entirely.

[Moneyhands23]

Tumbleweed

[bigpete]

This is starting to annoy me. What, you are going to hold out because the 100 million you are going to make over the course of your career isn't good enough? Gotta hold out so you can make 106 million?

These guys make more money in 3 months than most people make in their whole lifetime. Isn't there a point when you make more money than you can possibly ever spend? Money should be the least of their concerns. Especially if your family is already super loaded.

And most teams spend to the cap or close to it. So really the greedier these top end guys are, the less there is to go around for their teammates.

Just grinds my gears.
End rant.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by bigpete

This is starting to annoy me.

These guys make more money in 3 months than most people make in their whole lifetime. Isn't there a point when you make more money than you can possibly ever spend?

Just grinds my gears.

Lol, NO!

And if you can't spend it, get married

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Stone hands"??

Come on. Grubauer's save on Backlund's shot in OT in Game 4 was all world.

top half of the net was open...all he had to do was hit it

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

top half of the net was open...all he had to do was hit it

Go re-watch the highlights. Backlund got that puck in the air, and it would have gone in had Grubauer not lifted his pad in desperate split second to keep it out.

[kyuss275]

on "mynhlrumours.com" It said a source says Tkachuk are far apart on contract. NOt sure if Piere lebrun from the Athletic was the source. It was under his heading.

[direwolf]

Just over a week until the season starts, and I really thought Tre would have had him signed by now. I'm getting the feeling that he's gonna miss some significant time before this gets done.

[getoverit]

He would have been signed if he folded like a cheap suit like dumbass

[Fire]

He will sign one day before game #1 and then have a below average season.

[Manhattanboy]

I think this gets done by mid week.

[motorcrosser]

So is the Neal signing what's causing this problem? If so, Treliving should have foreseen this, no?

Sent from Indianapolis

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by bigpete

This is starting to annoy me. What, you are going to hold out because the 100 million you are going to make over the course of your career isn't good enough? Gotta hold out so you can make 106 million?

These guys make more money in 3 months than most people make in their whole lifetime. Isn't there a point when you make more money than you can possibly ever spend? Money should be the least of their concerns. Especially if your family is already super loaded.

And most teams spend to the cap or close to it. So really the greedier these top end guys are, the less there is to go around for their teammates.

Just grinds my gears.
End rant.

There are at least 3 billion people in this world that could say the exact same things about any of us.