[News] UPD: Coyotes renounce the rights to draft pick Mitchell Miller

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

"With embarrassment and remorse, I soon learned the gravity of my words and actions, which were completely wrong and I understand the humility it caused my friend Isaiah and his family."

It's pure bull####. He didn't soon learn the gravity of his words. He's alleged to have kept the bullying going for another two years. Then didn't bother to apologize two years after that and counting. And then calling his victim, who so impacted by his actions that he was mentally harmed seeing him get drafted, a friend? That's just adding to the insult.

#### this guy.

Yep. Not good enough.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Interesting, so the Coyotes did at one point think he was unworthy of being drafted and then at some point afterwards was back in consideration.

Probably around the same time they found out that they were losing 2 draft picks for cheating.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

But there's no victim blaming here guys!

You're right. She should have kept quiet about it for two years. My mistake.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cannon7

There's a reason we don't allow our accusers to sit in the jury box.t.

I mean, this is just me but between a disabled Black teen and his family and the person who called him racist terms, forced him to eat a lollipop that was pissed on, and smashed his face into a brick wall, none of which is disputed, I too find it difficult on who to trust.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I mean, this is just me but between a disabled Black teen and his family and the person who called him racist terms, forced him to eat a lollipop that was pissed on, and smashed his face into a brick wall, none of which is disputed, I too find it difficult on who to trust.

It's called impartiality. An unfamiliar concept, I'm sure.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Yes, certainly equal weight should be given to a proven liar and his victims he tormented for 9 years. Oh sorry, only 7 years...they clearly lied about the other two.

This also isn't court. It's becoming apparent you can't tell the difference. Yes, he faced his legal repercussions, but that doesn't mean we can't condemn his actions still. It doesn't mean we have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he continued to torment his victims. If the victims say he did, on the balance of probability, we should be able to believe them unless there's a reason not to. What's the reason not to? What do they have to gain? Why did they accept the apology of the other bully? How come that magistrate, who probably understand impartiality, tore him a new one for his attitude during the case? It's not just the family who saw a bad seed here.

This sounds like a family speaking out about their tormentor and nothing more. I don't know why we need to assume they are lying about it.

It's become apparent to me why you are victim blaming, it's because you don't see the Black teen and his family as the victims, for some reason you think this guy is.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Bill Miller (no relation), a UND alumn, went on his show and called for Mitchell Miller to have his scholarship revoked. And his arguments is the same nonsensical claim that all 14 year olds know right from wrong. That claim doesn't even hold true for adults, let alone children.

You're objecting to the word "alumni"? Okay then.

He did not call for Mitchell Miller to have his scholarship revoked. Calling for something means to publicly declare it must happen. He simply believes Miller forfeited his right to a scholarship, in his opinion, and an NHL career, in his opinion. He did not instruct UND or the NHL to do either of those things, what right would he have to do so?

And nonsensical claim? You mean science? At the age of two children understand right and wrong. By the age of ten, most children have developed an clear understanding of right and wrong, the general implications of both, and that doing wrong causes disruption and chaos. And it’s not just an understanding, the body produces a chemical reaction when they are doing something wrong. That’s science.

What you’ve described, as in a 14 year old (and especially an adult) who doesn’t know right from wrong, is someone with antisocial personality disorder. After rejecting the term “psychopath,” you’re describing Miller as one. I certainly don’t think he is, but you believe he is?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It sounds like a family speaking out about their tormentor and nothing more. I don't know why we need to assume they are lying about it.

No one said they were lying. But they're also not impartial. This is why we have a justice system. Vigilantism doesn't work. The Internet kind included.

Admit it. You had never heard of this kid until today.

And you'll probably have forgotten about him by this time next week.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cannon7

No one said they were lying. But they're also not impartial. This is why we have a justice system. Vigilantism doesn't work. The Internet kind included.

But we can't believe them. They aren't lying, they just aren't being truthful? A mother doesn't just forget whether or not her son's assailant offered a sincere apology or continued to harass him for 2 years. I mean what an odd claim.

Originally Posted by cannon7

Admit it. You had never heard of this kid until today.

Sure. I mean, yeah obviously. And I wouldn't have heard from him at all if he either a) wasn't a racist, disgusting bully as a 14 year old or b) apologized for being a racist, disgusting bully somewhere between the day of the criminal incident and 4 years later.

Originally Posted by cannon7

And you'll probably have forgotten about him by this time next week.

And hopefully never get reminded of him again as he fails to make the NHL.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What an odd hill to die on. Defending a racist and abusive hockey player that tormented a disabled youth, not for days, weeks or months - but for YEARS.
Is this escalation of commitment or what is going on here?

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He did not call for Mitchell Miller to have his scholarship revoked. Calling for something means to publicly declare it must happen. He simply believes Miller forfeited his right to a scholarship, in his opinion, and an NHL career, in his opinion. He did not instruct UND or the NHL to do either of those things, what right would he have to do so?

Hey, if you get your rocks off by splitting hairs who am I to judge?

"Do I think he needs to be banished from society and sent to the moon and left there until the end of time? No. Do I think he forfeits his right to get a college scholarship at the University of North Dakota? Yes. Do I think he forfeits his right to play in the NHL? Yes."

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And nonsensical claim? You mean science? At the age of two children understand right and wrong. By the age of ten, most children have developed an clear understanding of right and wrong, the general implications of both, and that doing wrong causes disruption and chaos. And it’s not just an understanding, the body produces a chemical reaction when they are doing something wrong. That’s science.

Show me a study that says all 14 year olds know right from wrong. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

As B Brad (not Bill, my mistake) Miller puts it:

"I do think everybody deserves a second chance in life," Brad said. "I really do. He was young when all this stuff happened, I get that, but you're old enough to know right from wrong at 14 years old. If you're bullying a handicapped kid when you're 14 years old, and something in your head doesn't click that this isn't right, I don't think you're ever going to figure it out."

Yep. Deserves a second chance. But will never figure it out. How enlightened of him.

Article goes on to say:

Brad admitted that he wasn't perfect at that age and made mistakes and received second chances, but that age 14 is old enough to know right from wrong.

Glad he figured it out. Lucky there wasn't a commentator out there like him ready to pounce on his mistakes.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Glad he figured it out. Lucky there wasn't a commentator out there like him ready to pounce on his mistakes.

Do...do you think he also called a Black teen the N-word while smashing his head against a wall? Or pissed on a disabled teen's food?

There's making mistakes as a 14 year old, the ones we can categorize as "boys being boys" for lack of better term, and then there's what Miller did.

It seems maybe your default is that we all did terrible things at 14, but no, most of us did not do anything comparable to what was done in this case. Like at all. You acting like Brad Miller has the same type of past as Mitchell Miller isn't fair at all, absent any form of evidence. We all made mistakes as children, but we didn't torment a disabled teen to the point of harming their mental health and refuse to apologize as adults for it.

And again, it's not just that he did these things as a 14 year old but has not sought forgiveness from his victims since then (you know, assuming we can believe his victims...).

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What an odd hill to die on. Defending a racist and abusive hockey player that tormented a disabled youth, not for days, weeks or months - but for YEARS.
Is this escalation of commitment or what is going on here?

There's a difference between defending and not condemning. Perhaps that kind of nuance is lost on you.

If you must cast a young man to the flames, that's your sickness. Not mine.

These were two children who were utterly failed by the adults around them from the age of seven onward. And this failure continues. Now they're in the midst of a media circus. All for something that should have stopped when they were both in first grade.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Bullies Nearly Twice As Likely To Have Mental Health Disorder

Oh I dont doubt most bullies have issues, just autism aint one of them, oppositional conduct disorder, hell yeh, ADHD likely, addiction issues, depression, suicidal tendancys of course, just not autism

[Red Potato Standing By]

Yep you are right they were utterly failed as children, he is not a child anymore so now is responsible for his actions, and he doesn’t seem very apologetic towards the victim. So I would say his actions are pretty telling.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Honestly, I don't think you understand the bullying that can go on.

Outside of killing Miller, the options of the victim's parents are limited. What else can they do? The police were involved, there was a criminal case, he still persisted. Moving their disabled teen around to a different school because he is being bullied may cause more harm, moving from the community may be impossible. Punishing him because he is bullied by telling him he can't hang out in the same social groups? What does that say to the victim?

Frankly I think it's disgusting you're blaming the mother of the victim and alluding to her lying frequently.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Well here's what I would like to see happen, to be quite specific.
I would like to see the Coyotes come out and say

"This organization has a zero tolerance policy against bullying. We regret that we made an error in judgement in selecting a player in the recent NHL draft. We have formally requested to the NHL that we relinquish all rights to this player, in hopes that he can proceed in exploring possible opportunities with other organizations. The Phoenix Coyotes though will not be signing this player to a contract."

[Titan]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Honestly man, ...



Please contribute more than being a pylon.

Wow. The guy has made two posts since he is back and you are already trashing him.

I for one welcome Pylon back and look forward to his useful contributions!!

[shogged]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Show me a study that says all 14 year olds know right from wrong. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=...=1&oi=scholart


If you're 14 and you still don't understand right from wrong, you're likely suffering from Autism (like you suggested he may be earlier) or a personality disorder (psychopath).



None of us could say which for sure obviously, but the facts on moral development have been enshrined in science for well over 50 years. This was not a normal thing for a 14 year old to do, at all.

[Plaedo]

dp