[News] UPD: Coyotes renounce the rights to draft pick Mitchell Miller

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by cannon7

There are posters advocating for violence against this young man.

Not me. I’m advocating for violins 🎻 against him.

[Boreal]

Double post wrong place

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by pylon

There are lot of comments in this thread about cutting the kid a break... he was only a kid, he had bad influences, bad parenting.... etc.

Haven't seen a single post like that. He didn't get a break. He was punished. It is now four years later. He hasn't reoffended.

He's not getting a break now, either. The media is lambasting him for things he did as a child. Things he was already punished for doing. People here are criticizing him for a lack of remorse he displayed in front of a magistrate -- when he was 14.

This is just ridiculous. Another poster rightly pointed out that if this happened in Canada, records of this juvenile offense would be private. They're private in the United States, too. It's just that a reporter dug into his past and found someone with a tale to tell. The law, as it stands, protects juvenile offenders because that's the moral thing to do. Children aren't adults. But now that the media has their hands on the story it's open season?

[troutman]

pylon, good to see you!

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by pylon

I've learned, if you are a total bully jerk-wad at 14, the odds are against you, and you will likely be one at 18-24-45.... etc. I'm sure a handful of these guys turn it around, but from what I've seen, the majority simply don't.

Totally agree. Also want to add that although I was never bullied I knew my fair share growing up. The vast majority of them grew up exactly how you would expect them to (i.e. drug addicts, unfulfilled career, broken family, etc...). The very small sliver of bullies who realized what they were really went out of their way to become decent people. I'm not seeing that here.

Also, the bullying I saw came nowhere near to the behaviour of Miller. That's some next level stuff. I assume this kid was dealing with combined issues of being born with that sort of disposition, potential home abuse, and also coddling of said behaviour by his family along with USA Hockey.

But I believe in second chances. Even for this dbag... it's what separates us from being one. I'm just extremely doubtful he'll do anything meaningful with it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I have a hard time believing that NHL teams were avoiding him just because of something that he did when he was 14, nor do I think someone is beyond redemption. But what he did was a warning flag and you know that in any meetings he had with potential NHL clubs, he was under the microscope big time because of it - which is absolutely fair IMO. If he aced those meetings by saying all the right things, someone would have picked him earlier. The rumours that some NHL clubs were avoiding him completely, suggests to me that they had good reasons to heed those warning flags.

Just speculating of course.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cannon7

It's just that a reporter dug into his past and found someone with a tale to tell. The law, as it stands, protects juvenile offenders because that's the moral thing to do. Children aren't adults. But now that the media has their hands on the story it's open season?

For someone who seems to be in the "not excusing his actions" group, you sure do excuse them a lot.

Now it's the media's fault for having the victim speak out? The laws fault for making it legal to report on this in Ohio. His parents fault for not stopping it sooner. Ignoring the decade of bullying to focus on one event that he got a whooping 25 hours of community service for. You even had the audacity to try and excuse his lack of apology with opening him up to a civil case (which wouldn't matter because they have the incident on video if they wanted to go civil).

He made a mistake, refused to apologize in person, continued to not try to apology in person up until today. So that's on him. Not the justice system, not the media, not Ohio, not even his parents.

[afc wimbledon]

Look this kid could go to college and get a job without any issues at all, the only reason he and his story are being talked about is because he made himself available for the draft, no one is arguing he shouldn't be left alone to live his life out in anonymity, he's just chosen to put himself in a position where he isnt going to get anonymity.

If his agent had any sense he would have told the kid to pick the college route and do a shed load of voluntary work in atonement and then try making the show in a few years, at that point he'd be a feel good story

[Oling_Roachinen]

Or at least when he was reaching out to the NHL teams to issue "apologies" his agent should have made sure that he reached out to his victim too. If his agent wasn't trying to bury the story, which would be hard, he at least should have tried to dot his i's and cross his t's by protecting his client the best way possible. Probably could have turned this story either into a non-story or one of success if his victim stood up for him instead of talking about how painful it was that he got drafted. It's like he learned nothing from Billy Madison. Billy would have been dead if he didn't reach out to those he bullied...

I guess we can add another person to blame other than Miller!

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Or at least when he was reaching out to the NHL teams to issue "apologies" his agent should have made sure that he reached out to his victim too. If his agent wasn't trying to bury the story, which would be hard, he at least should have tried to dot his i's and cross his t's by protecting his client the best way possible. Probably could have turned this story either into a non-story or one of success if his victim stood up for him instead of talking about how painful it was that he got drafted.

I guess we can add another person to blame other than Miller!

Reading between the lines my guess is the agent probably did suggest something like this, there's no way he wouldnt have been aware of how difficult this was going to be, which leads one to assume the kid told the agent he didnt want to do the work to mitigate the issue, so basically one can assume still a ###### and still dumb as a rock

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Haven't seen a single post like that. He didn't get a break. He was punished. It is now four years later. He hasn't reoffended.

He's not getting a break now, either. The media is lambasting him for things he did as a child. Things he was already punished for doing. People here are criticizing him for a lack of remorse he displayed in front of a magistrate -- when he was 14.

This is just ridiculous. Another poster rightly pointed out that if this happened in Canada, records of this juvenile offense would be private. They're private in the United States, too. It's just that a reporter dug into his past and found someone with a tale to tell. The law, as it stands, protects juvenile offenders because that's the moral thing to do. Children aren't adults. But now that the media has their hands on the story it's open season?

He was punished but it sure seems like a lack of remorse and continued intimidation occurred.

We are talking about someone who physically and psychologically tormented an extremely vulnerable person for years. What he did is absolutely rotten to the core and I hope he pays the ultimate price and doesn’t get to pursue his dream of playing hockey for a living. I don’t want him anywhere near being in a position of a role model in the future. I am glad he is getting lambasted and in my opinion deserves all negative repercussions that come from this incident as what he did for YEARS was disgusting.

I have refrained from pairing in this thread but my blood has been boiling over this incident.

I don’t get why you are defending him? You say he hasn’t reoffended but you have no idea. He probably has bullied many others over the years and who is to say he hasn’t? He hasn’t been charged with anything doesn’t mean he hasn’t hurt or intimidated others.

Your last paragraph is another way of saying “boys will be boys” and because this happened as a youth he shouldn’t be held accountable as an adult? He needs to live with the consequences of his actions as his victim will be living with this for his entire life.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by getbak

Also, the fact that their GM wasn't allowed to participate in the draft and their 2 Associate Directors of Amateur Scouting were hired less than a week before the draft gives them a pretty easy out if they decide to walk away from this pick in the future.

I’ve seen some scouting reports suggesting Miller was a 2nd round talent but would likely go as low as the 5th due to his history. Without a pick until the 4th and a draft team in a state of disorganization with new guys coming in, the GM unable to participate, etc... as you have noted, I think someone saw an opportunity to get a steal of a pick. They were obviously hoping the players history would stay under the radar and remain history otherwise I think they would have tried to get ahead of the story. If things get too radioactive, it’d be pretty easy to hang the decision on someone else.

I also feel like it’s unfortunate that the Shane Doan news seems to be dropped in to distract from the story.

I think if the Coyotes had their crap together and still wanted the player, they...
- make the pick
- address the player history right away
- talk about why they think he’s now on the right track as a human
- talk about how mentorship is important and that they’re bringing in one of the teams greatest leaders to help mentor the new wave of young Coyotes
- talk about the opportunity this gives the Coyotes to do in the community

Do that upfront and the story looks a lot different and maybe a genuine story about rehabilitation.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

For someone who seems to be in the "not excusing his actions" group, you sure do excuse them a lot.

Now it's the media's fault for having the victim speak out? The laws fault for making it legal to report on this in Ohio. His parents fault for not stopping it sooner. Ignoring the decade of bullying to focus on one event that he got a whooping 25 hours of community service for. You even had the audacity to try and excuse his lack of apology with opening him up to a civil case (which wouldn't matter because they have the incident on video if they wanted to go civil).

He made a mistake, refused to apologize in person, continued to not try to apology in person up until today. So that's on him. Not the justice system, not the media, not Ohio, not even his parents.

To my knowledge, the only one actually punished here was the 14 year old child. A seven year history of bullying and no adults were held accountable.

Yes, all things considered, I'll afford that individual an opportunity to straighten his life out.

Similarly, I hope the victim can find peace.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cannon7

To my knowledge, the only one actually punished here was the 14 year old child. A seven year history of bullying and no adults were held accountable.[

Yes, all things considered, I'll afford that individual an opportunity to straighten his life out.

Similarly, I hope the victim can find peace.

You're not affording him the opportunity to straighten out though, you've been acting like it's a done deal and it's time to move on while his victim still talks about how painful it was. You've done everything to pass blame and excuse his actions in my opinion while not realizing that he hasn't done the bare minimum to earn that second chance.

Since my first post I said it's important to give second chances. But giving him the opportunity to straighten his life out should have start with him truly apologizing for his actions to his victim and seeking forgiveness. He hasn't made that first step, therefore in my mind he is the one foregoing his second chance, not us for not automatically granting it.

Not that it should matter what any of us think about him. No one is lobbying for him to be banned from the NHL or face further legal punishments. We just think that he's a ###### and won't care (or in some cases be pleased) if he doesn't make the big show and earn millions of dollars. And if he didn't want us to think he was a ######, he could have reached out to make amends but he doesn't, so it's obvious to me he doesn't want us to think he's a good person.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t get why you are defending him? You say he hasn’t reoffended but you have no idea. He probably has bullied many others over the years and who is to say he hasn’t? He hasn’t been charged with anything doesn’t mean he hasn’t hurt or intimidated others.

What if this was your child? Are you the kind of person who would just toss your child to the wolves because they did something awful?

Perhaps if it was your child you'd see things differently?

[Jiri Hrdina]

If my child had treated someone like this guy did, I can tell you that I would have intervened on multiple fronts, including removing him from hockey until his serious behavioral issues as a human being were addressed.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by cannon7

What if this was your child? Are you the kind of person who would just toss your child to the wolves because they did something awful?

Perhaps if it was your child you'd see things differently?

I would hope most of us, if our children did that, would be able to get him to understand what he did was wrong and seek forgiveness.

He apologized to the NHL teams that he wanted to draft him because they had something for him. But his victim, the person he should be seeking true forgiveness from, I guess is useless to him so no point. That shows me his character more than his actions 4 years ago.

Now what if it was your child who was bully incessantly for a decade, including actual criminal acts, and his bully ended up earning millions of dollars and praise playing a sport he loves while refusing to even apologize? Would you be rooting for him?

[The Yen Man]

On a personal level, I just have no time for bullies. I had a friend who had to change schools in junior high because he was being bullied by this one kid so much about his weight. I always felt ashamed I didn't do more to help him out before it got to that point, but I always hated that kid who bullied him. And to no surprise, the bully grew up and still seems like an ahole as an adult (from talking with a friend of a friend who still knows him).

What this Miller kid was way worse. The psychological damage he's done to his victim could very well be life altering. I get that he was punished by the law. But to this point, there doesn't seem to be any evidence shown that the he is working hard to make up for his grave mistakes.

Like it or not, hockey is a sport which thrusts the individual into the public light. The onus is on the kid to show the public to prove us wrong IMO. Until then, we only have our opinions to go by.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You're not affording him the opportunity to straighten out though, you've been acting like it's a done deal and it's time to move on while his victim still talks about how painful it was. You've done everything to pass blame and excuse his actions in my opinion while not realizing that he hasn't done the bare minimum to earn that second chance.

Since my first post I said it's important to give second chances. But giving him the opportunity to straighten his life out should have start with him truly apologizing for his actions to his victim and seeking forgiveness. He hasn't made that first step, therefore in my mind he is the one foregoing his second chance, not us for not automatically granting it.

Not that it should matter what any of us think about him. No one is lobbying for him to be banned from the NHL or face further legal punishments. We just think that he's a ###### and won't care (or in some cases be pleased) if he doesn't make the big show and earn millions of dollars. And if he didn't want us to think he was a ######, he could have reached out to make amends but he doesn't, so it's obvious to me he doesn't want us to think he's a good person.

You're sure attributing a lot of intent to this young man absent of evidence. Neither of us know what he did or didn't do to make or attempt to make amends. We can take the victim's mother at her word while at the same time recognizing that it is only one side of the story. Doesn't make anything more or less "obvious" to an objective observer.

It's this kind of thinking that gets us into trouble. We think we know more than we do. We mistake our emotional response for righteousness.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by cannon7

What if this was your child? Are you the kind of person who would just toss your child to the wolves because they did something awful?

Perhaps if it was your child you'd see things differently?

If that was my child, I'd feel terrible I failed the kid as a parent, and be deathly afraid of what the kid will grow up to be if I don't help him understand just how severe his actions were. I'd be doing everything I can as a parent to ensure myself and him are making as many amends as we possibly can to the victim and their family.

Sweeping it under the rug is definitely not an action I'd take, that's for sure. Especially if the kid still wants to have a hockey career. Because of his past actions, he now has to work 10X harder than everyone else to convince people he's changed, and be genuine about it. If he can't do that, then he's not meant to be in a career where he's under public scrutiny constantly. He needs to change his career path. As fans, it's not up to us to give him the benefit of the doubt.