A Tale of Two Tkachuks

[Flash Walken]

Through Tkachuk's first 18 games he saw little icetime with bennett, playing about 17:55 per game and producing heavily at even strength. Through his first 18 games Tkachuk had tied with Monahan for first on the team in even strength point production with 13 even strength points.

An interesting subplot this season for me has been the impact of Bennett on the second line and how that ripples through the lineup. Bennett is having in my opinion, his best season of professional hockey up to this point and has been used up and down the lineup pretty effectively. When he's going, he's an easy player to give more minutes to, when he isn't he makes the coaches decision to limit his minutes easy as well. Him being on or off a line hasn't seemed to cause much disruption.

Or has it?

After those 18 games, Bennett earned himself a promotion and found himself skating with Backlund and Tkachuk.

In the 12 games since that promotion for Bennett, Tkachuk has seen his offensive production stay relatively the same, 14 points in 12 games. Yet his even strength production has declined somewhat, with 8 points in 12 games.

What has also declined over that time period is Tkachuk's icetime.

Since Bennett has arrived on Tkachuk's line, Tkachuk has seen his icetime fall to 16:40 per game, but is seeing roughly the same even strength icetime (~14 minutes) game to game.

So what's happening?

The PowerPlay.

Tkachuk scored 6 pp points through his first 18 games, and has 6 pp points in his last 12, even though his PP minutes per game is down roughly 30%. The first 18 games of the season saw the Flames produce the 21st best PP in the league at 17.2%, tied with the Islanders.

In the last 12 games? The Flames are 4th in the league, chugging along at 31.7%. Tkachuk's icetime has fallen because the Flames are rarely on the PP for long.

What does this all mean? The Flames need to find more icetime for Tkachuk at even strength. While Bennett has performed admirably, his icetime has fallen in each of the last 3 games, playing over 13 minutes just once in his last 4.

I don't know what the solution is short of the Flames adding another top 6 player to the lineup via trade, but with just one point in his last 8 games, I think the Bennett experiment on the 2nd line needs to come to an end and the team needs to try every gear at their disposal to get Tkachuk more icetime at even strength. He simply has to play more to maximize team success.

It's fine to have Tkachuk and Bennett on the ice together, but they can't be tied together.

With Backlund out, I think the short term solution is to double shift Tkachuk on different lines. Give him the leash to be the catalyst on multiple lines out there and see if he can help contribute to more team depth scoring.

[Flashpoint]

We’re 8-1-1. Why change anything?

[GullFoss]

Wasn't Bennett demoted to the fourth line last game - so they're not really always tied together.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Wasn't Bennett demoted to the fourth line last game - so they're not really always tied together.

Yeah, there has been a few games now where he hasn't gotten 2nd line ice.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my post.

I'm suggesting if they are going to spread the icetime around right now with Backlund injured, they should also spread the Tkachuk around to get him more icetime and to try to draw more offense out of the depth players.

Tkachuk - Ryan - Bennett
Tkachuk - Janko - Neal
Tkachuk - Quine - Hathaway

You don't want to burn Tkachuk out, but with Backlund out of the lineup, see what happens if you give Tkachuk ~19 minutes a night instead of ~17.

Once Backlund is back, they should be looking for a better complimentary player for that second line.

[Jimdon]

I made a similar post in the thread last night. Seems like as soon as Bennettgot promoted to the second line tkachuks offense 5v5 pretty much disappeared. Not sure if that's fair to Bennett or not, but just something I noticed.

[Kasi]

13 points in 18 games is .72 points a game and 8 points in 12 games is .67 points a game. Seems like maybe something but then again when you look at it the difference in that is one point in 18 games. If he had 12 in the first 18 the rate would be the same. So this “somewhat” is basically statistically insignificant.

One could make the argument that playing with Bennett he’s been more productive 5-5 since he’s basically getting the same rate in less ice time. I don’t mind double shifting him occasionally since with Backlund our we’re shorthanded. This along with concerns on Bennett’s play of late are the main things in this post to focus on. It’s clear by stats that Tkachuk is doing just fine even with the struggles of Bennett. I want Backlund and Tkachuk together when he gets back healthy but I think until then it’s going to be a lot of line blending. And it’s still very much up in the air who that third person will be on the line. It could be Frolik again or Bennett or even someone else. (Maybe Neal but that was hardly good first time they tried it) I expect Peters to keep blending til he finds something that sticks.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I made a similar post in the thread last night. Seems like as soon as Bennettgot promoted to the second line tkachuks offense 5v5 pretty much disappeared. Not sure if that's fair to Bennett or not, but just something I noticed.

its so weird.

Bennett has just 3 even strength points in his last 12 games. Thats tied with hathaway and dube (who played just 6 games) and less than hamonic, hanifin, janko and backlund.

Frankly, I don't actually have a problem with that as long as the team is still scoring on the powerplay and the 2nd line is still finishing the night an even or a + checking top players. The Flames have allowed the 3rd fewest goals against in the league since Bennett has been put on the second line whereas prior to his promotion they were middle of the league.

That's a positive trend, whether Bennett produces or not.

[PugnaciousIntern]

I really enjoyed having Bennett and Neal together. But with Frolik (and now Backlund) out, this makes complete sense for the time being.

[sundown]

I think we'll see a return to the 3M line once Frolik and Backlund gets back. At least for a few games. Bennett seems to take on the net front presence since he's been moved to the second line. Because of that, Tkachuk probably has had to tweak his game a bit. I don't think I recall seeing him tip a puck in in a while.

[GullFoss]

I think chuckie should get more ice time by playing on PP1 and PP2

PP2
Chuckie - flank
Ryan - flank
Neal - centre
Bennett - front of net
Hanifin - point

[Canada 02]

I know no one wants to break up the first line, but while Backs and Fro are out, moving Lindholm to center Tkachuk would give more balance to the top 2 lines, give Tkachuk an offensive centerman, and may help who ever is playing RW on either line get going

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

I know no one wants to break up the first line, but while Backs and Fro are out, moving Lindholm to center Tkachuk would give more balance to the top 2 lines, give Tkachuk an offensive centerman, and may help who ever is playing RW on either line get going

I was against it.... but I’m for it now. It’s the safe move.

[Enoch Root]

Flames look tired.

That 3 on 1 in the first minute set the tone - lazy and sloppy. And they never got anything going after that.

[Enoch Root]

Last night, at home with last change, it made sense to keep the top line together.

But tonight, without last change, it is worth considering. Problem is that almost no one is going. Until they start skating and playing with urgency, it won't matter what line combinations they use.

[Enoch Root]

Ugh, wrong thread.

[GranteedEV]

Tkachuk was scoring at around 3.5 P/60 5v5 to start the season. It probably wasn't sustainable with this slump being a natural outcome. He's not Malkin/McDavid.

[gt4flames]

Bennett and Tkachuck were drafted for the same reason. In junior they were coarse grit sandpaper that could dangle, put up points, and opponents hated playing against them. If Bennett had lived up to his draft pedigree, Chuckie probably would'nt be ours. We got lucky.

Against the Oil last night, Bennett Dangled the pants off of Nurse and got a great chance. Bennett has hands, but isn't a play maker. He "makes his own game".

Tkachuck was invisible against the Oilers. He doesnt have the silk Bennett does, if he isnt a pest, hes not effective, emotionally, or points wise.

We are lucky to have both of these players.

[EldrickOnIce]

Bennett on pace for 24 points, after scoring 26 each of last 2 years.
I think this is maybe what we get, and that's OK - love his game, but if that's the best we got for line 2 we will have scoring problems when top line doesn't light it up.
I don't know who is the right choice for 2nd line, but it must not be Bennett.

[gt4flames]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Bennett on pace for 24 points, after scoring 26 each of last 2 years.
I think this is maybe what we get, and that's OK - love his game, but if that's the best we got for line 2 we will have scoring problems when top line doesn't light it up.
I don't know who is the right choice for 2nd line, but it must not be Bennett.

The flames drafted Eric Nystrom 9th overall...he never lived up to the draft pedigree of a top 10 pick but he was a solid player for the flames for a long time. Its unfortunate Bennett isnt going to be a Yzerman, Kariya, Backstrom, Johansen, or Ladd.. (all 4th overall picks) but as long as he keeps up being the player he is now, we should be thankful he isnt turning out to be a Hickey, Zhedev, or Weiss (and for the Calgary connection Pavel Brendl)( OR the Edmonton connection Adam Larsson, or Griffen Reinhart)

[EldrickOnIce]

Agree 100%
I love his game but keep falling into the same trap - saying he needs to start scoring (I did 10.minutes ago in the other thread).
I think Bennett is scoring what he is going to score. Which means the Flames need someone else to compliment the 2nd line, I guess.