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Old 03-31-2019, 01:33 PM   #21
Cecil Terwilliger
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China is going to bring in more money than North American women?

I'll believe that when I see it.
Well I’m sure the nhl has put some thought into it, even if they haven’t shared their economic forecasts with a random guy on a message board.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:34 PM   #22
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Elliote Friedman recently had Cassie Campbell on his 31 thoughts podcast to discuss the future of woman's hockey. Really good listen for anyone interested in the subject
This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but CCP has got to be the worst color commentator on TV these days. I'll take 200 Loubardiases (Loubardii?) over her.

Something about her monotone voice and slow cadence that just drives me insane. She takes an intense, action packed sport and makes it sounds like she's analyzing cricket.
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:37 PM   #23
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I like Cassie
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Old 03-31-2019, 01:43 PM   #24
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This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but CCP has got to be the worst color commentator on TV these days. I'll take 200 Loubardiases (Loubardii?) over her.

Something about her monotone voice and slow cadence that just drives me insane. She takes an intense, action packed sport and makes it sounds like she's analyzing cricket.
This is strange to me as colour commentators aren't precisely known for their electric personalities.

In terms of tone and pacing I find her quite similar to Kelly Hrudey, but somehow he's universally acclaimed (unless he's *gasp* defending a goaltender).

The only thing I would like to see her work on is being more concise, but that has actually come along miles from where she started IMO.
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Old 03-31-2019, 02:04 PM   #25
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This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but CCP has got to be the worst color commentator on TV these days. I'll take 200 Loubardiases (Loubardii?) over her.

Something about her monotone voice and slow cadence that just drives me insane. She takes an intense, action packed sport and makes it sounds like she's analyzing cricket.
Can this type of drive by stop? I think we have hashed and re-hashed this subject 1000s of times and the reality is some like Cassie and some dont. That doesn't mean we have to slander her every opportunity relating to every reference to womens hockey or PBP announcers.

On the subject at hand - I am safe to see this. I was looking forward to taking my young daughter to some of these games in the next couple of years.
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Old 03-31-2019, 02:09 PM   #26
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That's really too bad. The whole two league model was always going to fail but had hoped they would just merge.

I really feel that the nhl should step in and create a women's league similar to what the afl is doing in Australia. I think ultimately in this era of pricing mid-lower income fans out of the building it would be an inexpensive way to connect with girls and their families.

Already a few nhl teams were doing the right thing and supporting.
Why should the NHL have to fund something consumers clearly don’t want, and then likely have the players in the league start talking about pay inequalities like what happens in women’s soccer and the WNBA?

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Old 03-31-2019, 02:34 PM   #27
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This has nothing to do with the subject at hand
It sure doesn't.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:22 PM   #28
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Why do women's sports (for the most part) seem to struggle so much? I know I grew up in a province with no professional sports teams and HNIC was my first regular exposure to pro sports. As I got older the Jays won a few World Series and I became a fan. I played a lot of H.O.R.S.E growing up and even tried out for a basketball team, but never became a fan outside of a few years where I like to gamble on it. I've never had a favorite team in football, but I've gone to 4 NFL games over the years and always enjoyed it. I also used to really like gambling on it.

Every other sport has been very minor in my life. Played soccer for 7 years but can't stand watching it. Never seen a lacrosse game. Ringette? Field hockey? Arena football? None of those interest me. Same for women's versions of the male games I enjoy. Why is that? Is it because I can only fit so many hours of fandom in my life and I don't want to replace what I know and like already?

I knew about the Clarkson Cup a few days before it happened, but that was because I watch Sportsnet and listen to sports radio. I felt the talk after the game seemed to be even more amped up than before though, and that was really strange. I get that when you're a league operating on such small budgets that marketing can be tough - but when people are talking about a league who's season is over, how does that help get butts in the seats next year?

It's gotta be really tough. I have no doubt the women's game has a ton of talented athletes, and the sport likely has it's quirks that could make it more enjoyable in some facets than the mens game. But how they crack the code to get people to support them I don't know. Maybe they need to incorporate some gimmicks. Let the players paint their helmets and show some more personality. Try some XFL-style stunts like nicknames on the jerseys? I am a firm believer in that we are equal on this planet and I'm sure the women on these teams just want to be treated the same as mens hockey and just play a game they love without the gimmicks - but maybe the only way to succeed is to be different. I hope someone figures it out. I attended Wickfest in a professional manner a few years back and was so proud to see what Haley is doing for women's hockey. I wish there was a clear answer on how to have it succeed more.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:22 PM   #29
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more than what north american women are spending on the NHL than currently? the question is about untapped markets.

obviously the NHL in North America is a market that has been in existence since its inception... is the NHL going get more women interested in the game than currently is is how the statement was couched.
It seems to me that the more women you have playing the sport growing up, the more money they'll send your way long term. And you get more women to play the sport by having something resembling a pro league for them to develop to.

It's an investment. And a far more important one than China.
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:37 PM   #30
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It seems to me that the more women you have playing the sport growing up, the more money they'll send your way long term. And you get more women to play the sport by having something resembling a pro league for them to develop to.

It's an investment. And a far more important one than China.
the women's game has been as strong as it's ever been currently, but you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

while one can argue that the CWHL needed more time to develop, the attendance numbers were not good enough to continue the operations moving forward. Having one unified product would definitely help; two leagues wasn't going to work with the current numbers.

I am guessing the NHL bean counters think differently about China...presumably they have research to back up that position
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Old 03-31-2019, 03:44 PM   #31
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This is kind of a shame. I went to my first CWHL game this year, and enjoyed myself. I'd been thinking about going to more, but never found the time, so I realize I'm "part of the problem", as it were.
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Old 03-31-2019, 04:19 PM   #32
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Not surprising at all. People don't care about women's hockey enough.

Perhaps if the NHL ran their own league like the NBA does with the WNBA, it would have a chance of surviving long term. The NHL could (although they may not want to since it's a business after all) afford the immediate term pains for possible long term gains. There would be lot of cross over promotion that could occur; and would give it more resource backing. But they would do that if they figure there's a lot of potential revenue growth from boosting the women's game more.
Every analysis I've seen shows that the WNBA is essentially not profitable, it relies on the NBA to support it to continue existing. If the NHL is willing to have a dependency league on their hands to promote women's sports then that's their call. It is interesting to see though that despite all the NBA does for the WNBA they're constantly knocked for the wage gap between the two leagues. It seems no matter how much you do people won't be happy.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:22 PM   #33
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Why do women's sports (for the most part) seem to struggle so much? I know I grew up in a province with no professional sports teams and HNIC was my first regular exposure to pro sports. As I got older the Jays won a few World Series and I became a fan. I played a lot of H.O.R.S.E growing up and even tried out for a basketball team, but never became a fan outside of a few years where I like to gamble on it. I've never had a favorite team in football, but I've gone to 4 NFL games over the years and always enjoyed it. I also used to really like gambling on it.

Every other sport has been very minor in my life. Played soccer for 7 years but can't stand watching it. Never seen a lacrosse game. Ringette? Field hockey? Arena football? None of those interest me. Same for women's versions of the male games I enjoy. Why is that? Is it because I can only fit so many hours of fandom in my life and I don't want to replace what I know and like already?

I knew about the Clarkson Cup a few days before it happened, but that was because I watch Sportsnet and listen to sports radio. I felt the talk after the game seemed to be even more amped up than before though, and that was really strange. I get that when you're a league operating on such small budgets that marketing can be tough - but when people are talking about a league who's season is over, how does that help get butts in the seats next year?

It's gotta be really tough. I have no doubt the women's game has a ton of talented athletes, and the sport likely has it's quirks that could make it more enjoyable in some facets than the mens game. But how they crack the code to get people to support them I don't know. Maybe they need to incorporate some gimmicks. Let the players paint their helmets and show some more personality. Try some XFL-style stunts like nicknames on the jerseys? I am a firm believer in that we are equal on this planet and I'm sure the women on these teams just want to be treated the same as mens hockey and just play a game they love without the gimmicks - but maybe the only way to succeed is to be different. I hope someone figures it out. I attended Wickfest in a professional manner a few years back and was so proud to see what Haley is doing for women's hockey. I wish there was a clear answer on how to have it succeed more.
Women's hockey, as a league is fairly un marketable and un profitable. It is the equivalent of Bantam AAA/ Midget AA, not the greatest hockey. The travel costs are going to kill any type of profit for the teams or income for the players. It's not the same game as Junior hockey nor the NHL.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:26 PM   #34
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Damn. My daughter, after watching the Flames on TV said a few times "But only boys play hockey, right?" or "But only boys hockey is on TV right?".

Getting her to an Inferno game was the best way to answer her questions. It will be a shame if that's not an option going forward.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:35 PM   #35
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Always seemed like it lacked decent advertising and promotion. Which comes down to money and it is where I think the nhl could come in. An NHL team could bankroll a women's team for a shortened season for the cost of a 4th liner and recover some of those costs.

I think they could find a niche with a few thousand fans a game with a short schedule, good promotion and ticket giveaways to girls minor hockey. If they played in right sized stadiums and promoted it I think there's a market there though just my opinion. Won't happen overnight though, it will take work.

Start there and build the product and it could grow into something even bigger imo with how dramatically society is changing socially in the last 20-30 years. The Clarkson cup... I've got a passing interest and I wasn't really aware of when it was on even though.

The nhl needs to start investing more in connecting with grassroots as it is rapidly becoming a sport and league mostly for upper middle class and rich people and I think this would be a good cheap way to do it. They don't seem to care right now while they rake it in with those of us who grew up in a different era but it will eventually bite them in the ass. Almost too bad that other league didn't go down too.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:37 PM   #36
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Women's hockey, as a league is fairly un marketable and un profitable. It is the equivalent of Bantam AAA/ Midget AA, not the greatest hockey. The travel costs are going to kill any type of profit for the teams or income for the players. It's not the same game as Junior hockey nor the NHL.

I'm not sure this is true (well the unmarketable/unprofitable stuff, the rest is just classic drive-by which doesn't seem to matter to college sports in the US or junior hockey in Canada which clearly isn't top level either). Canada and the US national teams play each other and can draw crowds (they sold out their game in London I believe) which was just a random game, not part of any competition. Those games can also get reasonable tv ratings.

Perhaps you just do a 4 team league so you have just the elite players and the teams all have 4-5 players everyone knows.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:44 PM   #37
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It's a shame. So much has been done in recent years to elevate the visibility of the sport.

Perhaps the sport would be best incubated with regional leagues in geographic areas where support is strongest.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:45 PM   #38
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I don’t think the issue has anything to do with the league being a women’s league, but moreso the fact that when people are already committed to multiple established leagues that pull on their nostalgia and already include arguably the best of the best, how in the world are you going to claim a solid percentage of their attention?

There is rarely a reason to invest time in a new league unless the sport itself was otherwise unavailable previously.
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Old 03-31-2019, 05:47 PM   #39
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the biggest issue for Women professional sports in North America is the lack of women viewership? Women’s sports leagues are always going to be a hard sell to men, but I think these leagues could do a better job in trying to gain women viewership. I think tennis is a pretty good example of a women sport that gets attention all year. I guess the same goes with The UFC. I think if you would poll the viewership of both sports women viewership is probably quite high. Whatever tennis and the UFC are doing is working and women’s hockey should take notes from how they market their sport. They are individual sports tho so that’s the biggest difference.
The WNBA also struggles for views every year as well, could be a case of way too much competition.

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Old 03-31-2019, 06:02 PM   #40
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Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the biggest issue for Women professional sports in North America is the lack of women viewership? Women’s sports leagues are always going to be a hard sell to men, but I think these leagues could do a better job in trying to gain women viewership. I think tennis is a pretty good example of a women sport that gets attention all year. I guess the same goes with The UFC. I think if you would poll the viewership of both sports women viewership is probably quite high. Whatever tennis and the UFC are doing is working and women’s hockey should take notes from how they market their sport. They are individual sports tho so that’s the biggest difference.
The WNBA also struggles for views every year as well, could be a case of way too much competition.

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As sexist as this might sound it's reality. Women's tennis players and ufc fighters (arguable that they are thriving outside of Rousey who doesn't fight anymore) are much more marketable because the men watching can see their bodies. They can be marketed based on sex appeal. You can't do that covered in a helmet and layers of pads.

Also, I'm not sure why people think women's hockey is an untapped market for the NHL. The ladies that are into hockey likely watch the NHL and the ones that aren't will likely take an inexplicable amount of money to convince. It's much easier and likely more profitable to grow the game by attracting male viewership overseas or in non traditional markets like Arizona. It is really unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

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