Why does every goalie look good against the flames?

[Geeoff]

Most other teams have good goaltending

[Erick Estrada]

This is a continuation from last season in that this team has been inflating the save percentage of opposing goaltenders. There's just too many players with stone hands on this team and it starts with the 2nd line with Backlund and works its way down from there as bottom 6 scoring has been a big issue for years now. Price was pretty good last night but the amount of shots where Flames players put the puck on him instead of the open areas of the net makes it very easy for a goaltender. They had 45 shots but how many times did Price have to make difficult high glove hand save or high blocker saves? The first Tkachuk goal was the exact type of shot this team simply doesn't execute on a regular basis. Nearly everything was along the ice into his pads or into his body. This has been going on for over a season now and goaltenders are really good with positioning and you have to beat them with shots and the Flames really have a lot of trouble making them work for saves.

[ST20]

Originally Posted by Since1984

That was Carey Price... You genius.

Price hasn't been good all season and all of last season genius. If you bothered to read the post you'd realize this wasn't about Price or a single game so next time you want to be a prick why don't you use your smart ass to read first.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ST20

Price hasn't been good all season and all of last season genius. If you bothered to read the post you'd realize this wasn't about Price or a single game so next time you want to be a prick why don't you use your smart ass to read first.

It's no surprise struggling goaltenders like Price and Matt Murray looked fantastic against the Flames and bad against the rest of the league. It's been few and far between when the Flames have played a goaltender that looked like he was struggling and a lot of that is on the Flames for making them look good.

[Stay Golden]

Who knows maybe they grip the sticks tighter when they have scoring chances feeling the pressure that they have to score several goals when Smith is in net.
The added pressure results in blown finishes around the net?

It seems to be they rifle a lot of pucks into goalies chests far too often and usually miss the net entirely when a side is temp left open.
Either that or we are more fixated on their mistakes because it's our team.

[delayedreflex]

Too many stone hands seems like the reason to me - guys like Backlund, Bennett, Jankowski, and even Neal have had some incredible chances over the last few weeks and have been unable to bury them. I can only hope that this changes in the future.

I don't agree with those who say that Peters' system is the same as GG's - IMO we are getting more quality chances this year (ie. across the royal road passes), and just generally better puck movement (outside of the powerplay, which I think is still too static, though seems to be getting a bit better lately). I think there is still a lot of room to improve in execution, as not only do you have to be planning those cross-ice passes, you have to get the shot off quickly and into the open part of the net, which the Flames still struggle with.

[Locke]

I think its because in practice our players see that if you just get the puck on net it'll more than likely go in.

Unfortunately its because they're practicing against Mike Smith, other goalies actually make saves and muffins from the hashmarks rarely go in.

[Manhattanboy]

Their stats get padded against the Flames because our shots are typically of the low danger variety.

[nightfx]

I don't think this is an issue with the offense, which has been fine.


If we had a goalie like Gibson, Andersen, Vasilevsky, etc. We would be wondering why every goalie looks like crap against the Flames.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

This team is full of muffin shots. They work hard, but nobody has an elite release (Monahan is the closest). No great one timer options. Poor accuracy and a possible lack of playmakers. I saw the Jets play the other day and marvelled at their PP that consisted of 2 elite one timers on the same unit.

New coach and still the bottom 6 is having trouble scoring same as last season. I will never forget last season when this team’s group of shooters made currently struggling AHL goaltender Christopher Gibson of the NYI look like a perennial Vezina winner. When the playoffs were on the line and we needed these guys to come up clutch and score a couple goals, they were legitimately incapable of doing so.

This is exactly right. You can even see it in the way Peters has structured the offense. It really focuses on trying to generate cross-crease passes for tap-ins, or scoring off of odd-man rushes. The Flames regularly pass up decent shooting chances to make that extra pass. It worked early on, but now the opposition is wise to the plan and know that there really isn't anyone on the Flames who can just straight-up beat a goalie with wrist shot.

[Locke]

Look, post-loss negativity is to be expected, but I think people who have been following the season have a genuine right to be concerned.

We have been winning in spite of sub-0.900 goaltending. That is unsustainable so, yeah, at some point people expected the sky to fall.

The fact of the matter is that the silver lining here is that the sky has fallen early and its not too late.

This team is playing really well for the most part, but we're spotting 2+ really poor goals per game.

Nobody can sustain that.

There is still time to right this ship, its not over by a long shot, but if they keep trotting Smith out there, literally the worst goalie in the league, the same league in which Brian Elliott is employed nonetheless, then the sky will fall and stay there.

Which poses two important questions:

1. Does Treliving bite the bullet and pay for a proven goaltender?
2. Why do proven goaltenders forget how to goalie the second they don the Flaming C?

[The Yen Man]

It's all relative. We made Varlamov look pretty average, and that guy has been stellar so far this season.

[Nelson]

This is not definitive, but the Flames have an expected goals for of 63.43 (4th best) and have scored 58 goals. Thus, according to this model, the Flames have scored a little more than 5 less goals than they should have. This suggests the Flames may have a slight finishing problem this year, but its nothing compared to a team like the Hurricanes, which has an expected goals for of 72.7 and has scored 49 goals.

Meanwhile, the Flames have an expected goals against of 53 (18th best) and have allowed 58 goals.

So that's a goal swing of a little more than 10. Also, I just wanted to add the Flames expected goal differential of 10.43 is 4th in the NHL behind the SJS (10.49), LVGK (13.87), and CAR (24.85(!!)).

http://corsica.hockey/team-stats/

[Erick Estrada]

Carolina had similar issues last season as did the Flames so in both cases I tend to believe going into season two with different coaches for both teams it's not bad luck and more due to lack of finishers and below average goaltending.

[GioforPM]

I don't buy that they grip the sticks tighter because of Smith. I just don't believe that any thoughts are running through Backlund's head when he whiffs on an open net. I think if Bennett's pressuring himself in tight it's about his own production and how he wants to improve it (and not Smith). Bennett gets in his own head (remember when he scored and mimed taking a monkey off his back).

In other words, if there's sticks being gripped tight, there's nothiing more complex than "I haven't scored in a long time".

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Carolina had similar issues last season as did the Flames so in both cases I tend to believe going into season two with different coaches for both teams it's not bad luck and more due to lack of finishers and below average goaltending.

Agreed. Its an interesting thing. Last year, Carolina was 1st in xG differential and Calgary was 6th. Is it because this model really likes shot (shot attempt, scoring chance, etc.) differential? Is it that if a team gets a lot more shot volume than it gives up, this model loves a team? If so, I think its true that its likely more important to have the sort of plays that lead to goals as opposed to pure shot volume.

Is Coach Peters' system the kind that favours pure shot volume over shot quality? I haven't necessarily felt that way. In fact, there have been many times this year when my inner self has been yelling at the screen "shoot", but the Flames have held on for the perfect play.

[Trojan97]

Every fanbase in the league thinks their team makes other goalies look incredible. Just like every fanbase in the league thinks the officiating is slanted in their opponents favour most nights. You go on a site like r/nhl full of opposition fans and you see that pretty quickly.

[Toonage]

So really every fanbase thinks their team makes opposing goalies look better than they are, that the officials favor the opponents, and that Jim Hughson hates their team.

[crapshoot]

This thread brings a terribly boring narrative. How did Markstrom look? Or Crawford? Varlamov? Lundquist? Rask?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't buy that they grip the sticks tighter because of Smith. I just don't believe that any thoughts are running through Backlund's head when he whiffs on an open net. I think if Bennett's pressuring himself in tight it's about his own production and how he wants to improve it (and not Smith). Bennett gets in his own head (remember when he scored and mimed taking a monkey off his back).

In other words, if there's sticks being gripped tight, there's nothiing more complex than "I haven't scored in a long time".

Really? I dont believe you and even if you're telling the truth I think you're incorrect.

Sorry man, when your goalie lets in muffins from everywhere then everyone holds their sticks tighter and the stress becomes palpable.

Because you get the feeling that you cant allow any shots against because anything could go in. Theres no faith in your goaltender.

Nobody is taking risks because the most innocuous and innocent of chances against could be the one that makes you lose.

Having no faith in your goaltender is like an infectious disease. It ruins morale, kills swagger and eliminates creativity. You only always want to make the safe play. No taking risks because they might wind up in the back of your net.

Its not fair to compare Smith to Kipper, but Kipper instilled confidence in his team. Sure, he'd let in a bad goal from time to time, but he also made saves that he had no business making. His confidence and coolness infected the team.

Smith's lack thereof and panicky demeanor is doing the same but in a negative sense.

We need a goalie that can make routine 'NHL Goaltender' saves. Right now that seems like Rittich.

It seems proven that it isnt Smith, and if it eventually proves not to be Rittich then Treliving has to roll the dice and find someone else, but we cannot continue with sub .900 goaltending.

The real concern for me is that Treliving has brought in some goaltenders with pedigree in the past few years and they have all crumbled monumentally. Is that a fault of Treliving's ability to gauge talent or is something else going on? We've had a cavalcade of otherwise competent goaltenders absolutely crap the bed on us and its becoming time for fingers to be pointed. One way or another.