Unpopular Opinions about Flames

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You're just assuming I'm directly attributing regular season workload to that goaltender's performance in the playoffs being the primary reason for a team's elimination. That is not actually my argument (though to be fair I didn't really spell this out).

The vast majority of teams that needs their starter to play 65+ games have significant flaw(s) that will be exposed in 7 game series. It's rarely as simple as 'the backup isn't very good'. Heavy workload is a symptom of a bigger problem, not the root cause.

The prevailing question in this thread seems to be whether this core is good enough to compete in May/June. If the answer is "yes, as long as Rittich plays well for 65+ games", then the answer is actually no. The fact that Peters has only managed to give Talbot the crease 4 times over a comparatively dense 19 game stretch is not a good sign...

That’s an interesting and sensible point, thanks for the clarification.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

- Lundqvist best three playoff years came when he started 62, 62, and 46. Never made it past the 2nd round the six times he started more than 62.

You're just cherry picking here, and poorly.

He made the Stanley Cup final in 2014 with 63 gp, his best season yet. Obviously the two game difference between 63 GP (2014) and 65 GP (2016, lost in the first round to future champion the Penguins) makes all the difference?

Also, his GP was down in 2015 because of a neck injury that had him out for 2 months, and in 2017 again because he had a knee injury.

By your logic, maybe someone should run over Rittich because it's actually better for playoff success for a goalie to be injured and not playing during the season.

EDIT: making it past the 2nd round is also completely arbitrary way of measuring goalies performance.

How about Sv%?
2011 (68 gp): .923
2012 (62 gp): .928
2013 (43 gp): .926
2014 (63 gp): .920
2015 (46 gp): .922
2016 (65 gp): .920
2017 (57 gp): .910

Other than "Henrik Lundqvist at his prime was a fricking machine", I don't see a pattern there.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You're just assuming I'm directly attributing regular season workload to that goaltender's performance in the playoffs being the primary reason for a team's elimination. That is not actually my argument (though to be fair I didn't really spell this out).

The vast majority of teams that needs their starter to play 65+ games have significant flaw(s) that will be exposed in 7 game series. It's rarely as simple as 'the backup isn't very good'. Heavy workload is a symptom of a bigger problem, not the root cause.

The prevailing question in this thread seems to be whether this core is good enough to compete in May/June. If the answer is "yes, as long as Rittich plays well for 65+ games", then the answer is actually no. The fact that Peters has only managed to give Talbot the crease 4 times over a comparatively dense 19 game stretch is not a good sign...

Good point, but let me add a different one.

When the playoffs arrive, how fresh a goaltender is feeling should logically depend more on how much he's played in January-March than how much he's played in October-December.

By that logic, it makes sense to ride your starter at the start of the season and then share the load more in the latter half of the season.

This has the added bonus that you can probably squeeze a few more regular season games out of your starter, and you do that at the time when team defense is usually the shakiest.

If this is the logic Flames are using, we should see Talbot starting more as the season progresses. (This makes even more sense if we consider that Talbot is less familiar with the team to start the season, and that Canadian fans/media are impatient, so getting a good start is beneficial for the atmosphere.)

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You're just assuming I'm directly attributing regular season workload to that goaltender's performance in the playoffs being the primary reason for a team's elimination. That is not actually my argument (though to be fair I didn't really spell this out).

The vast majority of teams that needs their starter to play 65+ games have significant flaw(s) that will be exposed in 7 game series. It's rarely as simple as 'the backup isn't very good'. Heavy workload is a symptom of a bigger problem, not the root cause.

The prevailing question in this thread seems to be whether this core is good enough to compete in May/June. If the answer is "yes, as long as Rittich plays well for 65+ games", then the answer is actually no. The fact that Peters has only managed to give Talbot the crease 4 times over a comparatively dense 19 game stretch is not a good sign...

Great post.

[btimbit]

I'll add that given Talbot hasn't looked terrible, it's possible they're just riding Rittich hard now given the tough schedule and we'll see more Talbot later on.

I definitely agree though, don't want Rittich starting 60+ games

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think when most teams have to overplay their starting goalie it’s more because their other goalie isn’t good.

Talbot just isn’t very good. He was a flash in the pan but has been terrible for a few years now.

I think what Powder Junkie’s saying is that it’s also a signal of a lack of confidence in the team playing in front of said backup.

[cam_wmh]

Now's the time to move Gaudreau.
He looks disengaged, and now's the time to liquidate;
a) his value is high
b) newcomers would have 40+ games to integrate

I've seen Philly pop up as a possible trading partner, and I'd like Couturier.
While not obligated to move him to a preferred destination, I imagined we'd receive richer compensation, with the Flyers confident in extending him.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Now's the time to move Gaudreau.
He looks disengaged, and now's the time to liquidate;
a) his value is high
b) newcomers would have 40+ games to integrate

I've seen Philly pop up as a possible trading partner, and I'd like Couturier.
While not obligated to move him to a preferred destination, I imagined we'd receive richer compensation, with the Flyers confident in extending him.

Couturier likely had more trade value than Johnny coming into the season.

Now it’s a sure thing.

Plus the Flyers have no reason to move the type of shut down scoring centre every team wants.


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[troutman]

What bothers me the most - during stoppages we often see the other team laughing it up on the bench. They are too comfortable - we are too easy to play against.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Now's the time to move Gaudreau.
He looks disengaged, and now's the time to liquidate;
a) his value is high
b) newcomers would have 40+ games to integrate

I've seen Philly pop up as a possible trading partner, and I'd like Couturier.
While not obligated to move him to a preferred destination, I imagined we'd receive richer compensation, with the Flyers confident in extending him.

You don’t move a player like Gaudreau in season that is an off-season deal when there are more options for trade.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by troutman

What bothers me the most - during stoppages we often see the other team laughing it up on the bench. They are too comfortable - we are too easy to play against.

I gotta agree.

Tkachuks agitation becomes a joke when he's standing there all by his lonesome.

Paper tigers right now. No respect.

[Flamenspiel]

I don’t think you trade JG now, it’s a panic move plus you need someone to provide entertainment while you tank the season. The Flames should be patient and perhaps in the off-season you consider it, very much the way Colorado handled the Duchene trade.

[Nsd1]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I don’t think you trade JG now, it’s a panic move plus you need someone to provide entertainment while you tank the season. The Flames should be patient and perhaps in the off-season you consider it, very much the way Colorado handled the Duchene trade.

Colorado traded Duchene a month into the season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I gotta agree.

Tkachuks agitation becomes a joke when he's standing there all by his lonesome.

Paper tigers right now. No respect.

This is why I think the Flames need to use Bennett better. He brings jam.

Either
1) play with Gaudreau. Bennett can play a north south game, be hard on the forecheck, create room for Johnny, and head to the net without losing the puck dangling, and add some sandpaper to that line. Ferland got a lot of time in that slot.
Or
2) play with Tkachuk - then you have somebody else to support Tkachuk’s agitation, as you mention, and have a line that is overall tough to play against

[VintageMilanLucic]

Unpopular opinion: The club has perpetual mediocrity ingrained in its DNA and it will never change. On the outside to me, the Flames' culture has always felt antiquated, boy scout-ish, and don't forget the roll your eyes "character first!". I always got a vibe from fans and management that players should feel privileged to even play here and put on the C jersey.. which given the track record here is funny. But really, what is it? Old arena? Quiet conservative crowd? Constant bargain-bin hunting for spare parts (coaches, goalies, older players who can be signed for cheap and then we cross our fingers and hope they work out?), a rumored previous "Giordano cap" where players cannot earn more than their captain? (if true, why would any top tier player in their right mind want to play for the Flames if they would have to sign an artificially low contract and potentially leave millions on the table?... and don't start with because of the "Flames' culture," we are building something special, they should feel honored to play for us, quality of life in the city.)

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Flamenspiel

I don’t think you trade JG now, it’s a panic move plus you need someone to provide entertainment while you tank the season. The Flames should be patient and perhaps in the off-season you consider it, very much the way Colorado handled the Duchene trade.

You think Gaudreau is entertaining right now????

[Johnhitbox]

Originally Posted by VintageMilanLucic

Unpopular opinion: The club has perpetual mediocrity ingrained in its DNA and it will never change. On the outside to me, the Flames' culture has always felt antiquated, boy scout-ish, and don't forget the roll your eyes "character first!". I always got a vibe from fans and management that players should feel privileged to even play here and put on the C jersey.. which given the track record here is funny. But really, what is it? Old arena? Quiet conservative crowd? Constant bargain-bin hunting for spare parts (coaches, goalies, older players who can be signed for cheap and then we cross our fingers and hope they work out?), a rumored previous "Giordano cap" where players cannot earn more than their captain? (if true, why would any top tier player in their right mind want to play for the Flames if they would have to sign an artificially low contract and potentially leave millions on the table?... and don't start with because of the "Flames' culture," we are building something special, they should feel honored to play for us, quality of life in the city.)

I don’t see how any of this is an unpopular opinion.


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[Hackey]

I'm starting to feel that a terrible year might actually be a good thing for the organization. We need another impact player and a high draft pick would be the easiest way to achieve that. I also hope we make some major moves to shake the team up and a bad year likely increases the odds of that as well. I think the team might need to take a step or two back to take two or three forward. Stanley Cup first year in the new arena.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by troutman

What bothers me the most - during stoppages we often see the other team laughing it up on the bench. They are too comfortable - we are too easy to play against.

Exactly, Treliving has created a team of undersized no hit #####'s. And those players that aren't small play small. Constantly getting crosschecked and pushed around with absolutely no push back.

[DeluxeMoustache]

The middle ~four months of 2018-19 was an anomaly

Peters’ entire body of work before then and after 2019 all star break is the norm.