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Old 08-08-2020, 11:31 PM   #221
getoverit
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A ton of money spent on lines 3 and 4 with Lucic and Ryan. Luck were saddled with so Time to part with Ryan and find a cheaper replacement. We need some Salary cap savings to upgrade

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Working on a piece for Flamesnation right now about Ryan. In short, you don't trade him because Bennett also works for the third line at 5v5 and so therefore he's obsolete. Ryan's value on the PK is enormous.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:33 PM   #222
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Working on a piece for Flamesnation right now about Ryan. In short, you don't trade him because Bennett also works for the third line at 5v5 and so therefore he's obsolete. Ryan's value on the PK is enormous.
Exactly. Ryan on the 4th line line helps the 4th line. His faceoff ability helps minimize the fourth line being hemmed in to start. Worst case in a defensive zone start you swap Ryan in on the third line to help gain posession, which I recall them doing a few times. PK time helps utilize the player he is.
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:38 PM   #223
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Working on a piece for Flamesnation right now about Ryan. In short, you don't trade him because Bennett also works for the third line at 5v5 and so therefore he's obsolete. Ryan's value on the PK is enormous.
Ryan's impact on the PK during the Playoffs has been phenomenal so far. This season, though, he was merely average and last year, he was our worst PK'er by far.

However, his impact overall is still very valuable so there's no sense in trading him
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:39 PM   #224
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Nah Ryan was the Flames' best PKer by every important metric during the regular season this year. Allowed the fewest shot attempts and xGA/60
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:49 PM   #225
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Nah Ryan was the Flames' best PKer by every important metric during the regular season this year. Allowed the fewest shot attempts and xGA/60
His relative stats shorthanded were still only slightly above average.

If you go back to last year, he had the highest xGA/60 by far and was a complete liability on the PK in basically every way.

It's hard to judge a players' value based off their PK ability, because there are very few PK'ers who are effective year in year out. You just have to look at Jankowski as proof. Last year, he was by far our best PK'er in every way. This year, he was arguably our worst
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Old 08-08-2020, 11:56 PM   #226
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What relative stats? Are you talking about relative Corsi? That's a really flawed stat that doesn't paint a clear picture and that is totally outweighed by CA/min and especially xGA/min

Last year, much like this year, Lindholm was the Flames' worst PKer, followed by, yes, Ryan, who was pretty close to Hath, with Backlund and Janko being the best.

I think Ryan struggled at times last year because iirc he played with lindholm on the PK a lot, but I could be wrong about that. Janks I think really started to struggle once Hathaway was taken away from him.

Common denominators: Backlund good, Lindholm bad. But Ryan has really come into his own this year
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:18 AM   #227
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What relative stats? Are you talking about relative Corsi? That's a really flawed stat that doesn't paint a clear picture and that is totally outweighed by CA/min and especially xGA/min

Last year, much like this year, Lindholm was the Flames' worst PKer, followed by, yes, Ryan, who was pretty close to Hath, with Backlund and Janko being the best.

I think Ryan struggled at times last year because iirc he played with lindholm on the PK a lot, but I could be wrong about that. Janks I think really started to struggle once Hathaway was taken away from him.

Common denominators: Backlund good, Lindholm bad. But Ryan has really come into his own this year
Last year, Ryan and Lindholm only spent 7:33 together on the PK. Ryan's most common linemate by far was Hathaway who he spent 106:28 with.

Janks, on the other hand, only played 3:07 on the PK with Hathaway. His most common linemate by far was Lindholm who he spent 100:10 with which is ultra confusing because his numbers were way better than Lindholm's. With Lindholm, their xGA/60 was 6.01. In the 49:37 Janko spent away from Lindholm, his xGA/60 was an incredible 3.99.

Same thing this year. Janko and Lindholm spent 88:45 together, in which case they had an xGA/60 of 7.57, SCA/60 of 57.46 and HDCA/60 of 26.37 but in the 24:21 Janko spent away from Lindholm, his xGA/60 was 6.64, SCA/60 was 49.28, and his HDCA/60 was 17.25.

So I think we're both kinda wrong lol because looking at that, maybe Janko really is a good PK'er but is being dragged down by Lindholm
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:22 AM   #228
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Yeah I didn't really look that hard at last year's stats for the article. Different players, different HC, different team culture, different roles for almost everybody. Not surprised I got the deployments from last year wrong haha

Either way the article will be released this weekend, I'll post it here when it's out. I think it's an interesting look at the year and the results from the Flames' five forward pkers
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:28 AM   #229
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Also one more thing. Don't forget it took Ryan until like January to really come into his own last year. He was not great at all for the first few months and was straight-up bad at points. He had like 4 points in his first 25 games. Took him a while to adjust before he finally found a good line. Think he was even taken off special teams for a while there. Wouldn't be surprised if his early struggles deleteriously impacted his chance allowance on the PK. Don't have the stats on-hand right now but I wouldn't be surprised if his pk metrics vastly improved in the new year once he got acclimated to the new team. And then those better numbers continued as the new normal into this year.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:45 AM   #230
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Also one more thing. Don't forget it took Ryan until like January to really come into his own last year. He was not great at all for the first few months and was straight-up bad at points. He had like 4 points in his first 25 games. Took him a while to adjust before he finally found a good line. Think he was even taken off special teams for a while there. Wouldn't be surprised if his early struggles deleteriously impacted his chance allowance on the PK. Don't have the stats on-hand right now but I wouldn't be surprised if his pk metrics vastly improved in the new year once he got acclimated to the new team. And then those better numbers continued as the new normal into this year.
His PK stats actually got vastly worse after January last year.

Up until that point (I used Jan 9th just because that was the night he got his first point in January), his xGA/60 on the PK was 5.28 with a SCA/60 of 42.31 and HDCA/60 of 17.09.

After January 9th, his xGA/60 shot up to 6.65 with a SCA/60 of 49.52 and HDCA/60 of 22.58.

But to be fair, Calgary's PK as a whole got drastically worse in the second half of the season
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:57 AM   #231
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I actually think that this series is showing that Bennett is a much better C than winger and should have been there all along, as he was all through junior. He looks to be driving the play, getting the the front of the net and banging bodies on the forecheck. However these playoffs end, we really need to keep BennettatC next season and not push him back to the wing.
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Old 08-09-2020, 03:24 AM   #232
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Out of the NHL in two years? I'd be surprised... he can score, hit, and is 23. Guys like that usually stick around and thrive once expectations get a little lower. Look at Colin Wilson.
Biggest thing people miss. Often there are comments about hanifin is only 22 and it feels like hes beeen around fore ever. I'd give Benny another year for a chance then at 25 jettison potentially. He is actually 24 not 23.Elias lindholm by all canes fan accounts was terrible but now he is 25 now look at the results ... tough call as he shows in big games what he provides . I'm sure a change of scenery would benifiet him overall but the better option is solving the issue why does he need a change of scenery.
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Old 08-09-2020, 05:54 AM   #233
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Both Stajan and Ryan are proven centers. Something Bennett is not aside from 5 games every spring (or summer in the case of 2020).
Ryan should be traded this offseason. I’m sure we can get a 3rd or so for him. No use hanging onto an older player like Ryan in the last year of his deal. Especially when dropping 3+ million would really help this coming offseason.
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Old 08-09-2020, 09:22 AM   #234
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Biggest thing people miss. Often there are comments about hanifin is only 22 and it feels like hes beeen around fore ever. I'd give Benny another year for a chance then at 25 jettison potentially. He is actually 24 not 23.Elias lindholm by all canes fan accounts was terrible but now he is 25 now look at the results ... tough call as he shows in big games what he provides . I'm sure a change of scenery would benifiet him overall but the better option is solving the issue why does he need a change of scenery.
Age is always funny...just as seasons span 2 calendar years, it would almost be nice to do the same thing with players. Bennett turned 24 in June...I think of him as 23/24 (Janko and Monahan turn 26 over the next 2 months - I try to think of them as 25/26). We also can't forget that Bennett missed nearly the entire season in one of the most important development years when considering his age.



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Ryan should be traded this offseason. I’m sure we can get a 3rd or so for him. No use hanging onto an older player like Ryan in the last year of his deal. Especially when dropping 3+ million would really help this coming offseason.
I generally agree, mostly because it removes the coaches safety blanket. It would also open a path for Dubé to slide over to C in the event of an injury. Ryan is a 'nice to have', but that money can be put to better use.
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Old 08-09-2020, 10:14 AM   #235
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What is flawed is trying to determine who is or isn't a good PKer based on stats (who they are on the ice with, and what the system is, are extremely important, and the only way to tell is to actually watch film of the player).

Also, this is a thread about Bennett, so let's keep the conversation to Bennett and Jankowski.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:06 PM   #236
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Ryan should be traded this offseason. I’m sure we can get a 3rd or so for him. No use hanging onto an older player like Ryan in the last year of his deal. Especially when dropping 3+ million would really help this coming offseason.
While I don't think Treliving has untouchables, I think he'll need to get a really strong player back in some sort of package deal with Ryan included going back, for him to let him go. He's mentioned a few times this season how Ryan's advanced stats are stellar all over the ice in the internal system that Calgary uses, so I'm sure that has Ryan pretty high up on their list of players who help the Flames win.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:08 PM   #237
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I also could see Ryan re-signing here, at a cheaper contract rate going forward. It's a good fit for player/team here.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:13 PM   #238
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Agreed. I talked to him during Phase 2/3 and he expressed interest to me in re-signing. Said it's been a great fit for him and his family.
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:14 PM   #239
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What is flawed is trying to determine who is or isn't a good PKer based on stats (who they are on the ice with, and what the system is, are extremely important, and the only way to tell is to actually watch film of the player).

Also, this is a thread about Bennett, so let's keep the conversation to Bennett and Jankowski.

I chuckled
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Old 08-09-2020, 12:14 PM   #240
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I also could see Ryan re-signing here, at a cheaper contract rate going forward. It's a good fit for player/team here.
Ryan will be 34 next season. I could see a 1-year or 2-year deal at $2M (would prefer 1)
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