Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Stop. They are letting in skilled workers only to deliver Uber Eats. There is no plan past the bare minimum. Let people in = economic growth.

This one is totally mismanaged and typical of the Liberals. There is good somewhere in there but the actions are self defeating.

I remember some discussion a long time ago on here about how immigrants to Canada tend to be loyal to the party that was in power when they moved to Canada, and then it trickles down to their children. I am too lazy to research it at this point, but recall someone posting supporting evidence for it at the time. From my personal anecdotal experience, my parents moved here when the Liberals were in power and both my parents typically voted for the Liberals. My mother was a big flag waving Liberal supporter. My father ended up switching to the Conservatives a lot later in life. I was drawn to the Liberals as well, and I fully acknowledge that the influence from my parents likely played a role in that. I won't be voting for them again in the near future (the last time I did was Justin Trudeau's first term, but I am beyond done with his government at this point).

I guess the point was that immigration is one way political parties try to strengthen party support. If they start losing support of people born here, they can bring over new voters.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by DFO

Sounds like a poor realtor to begin with.

What do you mean?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I remember some discussion a long time ago on here about how immigrants to Canada tend to be loyal to the party that was in power when they moved to Canada, and then it trickles down to their children. I am too lazy to research it at this point, but recall someone posting supporting evidence for it at the time. From my personal anecdotal experience, my parents moved here when the Liberals were in power and both my parents typically voted for the Liberals. My mother was a big flag waving Liberal supporter. My father ended up switching to the Conservatives a lot later in life. I was drawn to the Liberals as well, and I fully acknowledge that the influence from my parents likely played a role in that. I won't be voting for them again in the near future (the last time I did was Justin Trudeau's first term, but I am beyond done with his government at this point).

I guess the point was that immigration is one way political parties try to strengthen party support. If they start losing support of people born here, they can bring over new voters.

This is xenophobic nonsense, based on xenophobic nonsense

[DFO]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

What do you mean?

Not pricing the property appropriately to begin with?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Is the government sticking to this insane population growth because of pride? Simply not caring? Standard of living is actually decreasing across the board.

And it will continue. The RCMP just recently released a report that Canada is nearing a point social unrest will happen in part to a severe reduction in standard of living.

Kind of funny to see folks that defend this government over the years. Eating up the racism and climate denial and misogynist manipulation.

Can’t wait until we finally figure out the real reason the Liberals are doing this. I absolutely won’t rule out incompetence, but with guys like Butts hanging around its doubtful

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

This is xenophobic nonsense, based on xenophobic nonsense

Please elaborate. I vaguely remember the conversation, and I think it was during the time that Harper raised the immigration number to 500K without tying it to any metric. Trudeau then tripled down later.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

What do you mean?

If you’re getting offers for $100,000 over the house was very poorly listed. But sometimes people low ball the listing to try and get a bidding war. Good realtors will list for close to max value and still sell quickly.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Please elaborate. I vaguely remember the conversation, and I think it was during the time that Harper raised the immigration number to 500K without tying it to any metric. Trudeau then tripled down later.

Sure, there are a few reasons it's xenophobic.

For background, there's almost zero evidence for any preferences by ethnicity, but the little there is suggests any preference that may have been held in the past has been significantly diminished. As with most things, it's a very nuanced issue and party preference is much more strongly correlated with population density, education, and regionality. Almost all evidence that does exist suggests there's some voter preference for Liberal party, but it's very specific and very small (ie. Sikh voters in Ontario, but not in BC. Sikh voters in Ontario but not Chinese voters in Ontario). This would be impossible to game plan for election purposes, especially considering recent immigrant turnout is extremely low and remains that way for a long time. Political parties simply do not plan for election strategy way beyond the current cycle because most of the actors know they may not be there for the next election. Political actors believe in individual survival far more than future party electability. They're not going to make plans that help them electorally in 15 years in my opinion.

As for the xenophobia, you need to think about how an opinion like this forms and why it perpetuates for centuries. There's a reason it resonates as a wedge issue and has for many, many decades, in almost every country that allows immigration: fear of others (xenophobia). How does someone start to believe allowing new immigrants is a cynical plot to get re-elected? Why does it gain traction? It's not because of evidence and critical thinking

[FlamesAddiction]

It's only xenophobic if if think it's a bad thing. Is it xenophobic against Albertans to say that they typically vote for the Conservatives? Of course not, it's just a fact. Just like historically, Catholics tend to vote for the Liberals and Protestants tend to vote Conservative. Again, it's not showing prejudice against those groups, it's just the way politics work. The body politic of the country is basically a conglomeration of special interest groups, immigrants being one of those among many. It's also a fact that immigrants tend to vote for the Liberals more so than they do Conservatives. I also think you're underestimating political parties here. Of course they implement policies that are intended to have long term effects.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Sure, there are a few reasons it's xenophobic.

For background, there's almost zero evidence for any preferences by ethnicity, but the little there is suggests any preference that may have been held in the past has been significantly diminished. As with most things, it's a very nuanced issue and party preference is much more strongly correlated with population density, education, and regionality. Almost all evidence that does exist suggests there's some voter preference for Liberal party, but it's very specific and very small (ie. Sikh voters in Ontario, but not in BC. Sikh voters in Ontario but not Chinese voters in Ontario). This would be impossible to game plan for election purposes, especially considering recent immigrant turnout is extremely low and remains that way for a long time. Political parties simply do not plan for election strategy way beyond the current cycle because most of the actors know they may not be there for the next election. Political actors believe in individual survival far more than future party electability. They're not going to make plans that help them electorally in 15 years in my opinion.

As for the xenophobia, you need to think about how an opinion like this forms and why it perpetuates for centuries. There's a reason it resonates as a wedge issue and has for many, many decades, in almost every country that allows immigration: fear of others (xenophobia). How does someone start to believe allowing new immigrants is a cynical plot to get re-elected? Why does it gain traction? It's not because of evidence and critical thinking

In my cultural community, the overwhelming love the older generation has for the PM and party that brought in a lot of them into Canada in the 60's and 70's is shocking. They have Pierre Trudeau on a different level in terms of higher standard, almost to the point where it's strange to the younger generation. The level of dislike for his son is totally opposite. I do think there is some level of loyalty and admiration to the party and PM that does bring in you in, no matter who the party was.

The Harper government worked very very hard to court immigrant votes and support, the classic right hand man Jason Kenney was known as attend an insane amount of cultural events to drum up support. It was a key reason Harper won multiple elections and it was strange how they blew it up in 2015 with stupid talk about barbaric cultural practices tip line. A lot of wasted work.

I can tell you in my wide ranging circle of immigrant cultural backgrounds, a lot of people didn't have a clue about Canadian politics but they knew Kenney and voted for him and the Conservatives federally and provincially specially cause he was a regular at their church, mosque, synagogue, cultural center and more.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's only xenophobic if if think it's a bad thing. Is it xenophobic against Albertans to say that they typically vote for the Conservatives? Of course not, it's just a fact. Just like historically, Catholics tend to vote for the Liberals and Protestants tend to vote Conservative. Again, it's not showing prejudice against those groups, it's just the way politics work. The body politic of the country is basically a conglomeration of special interest groups, immigrants being one of those among many. It's also a fact that immigrants tend to vote for the Liberals more so than they do Conservatives. I also think you're underestimating political parties here. Of course they implement policies that are intended to have long term effects.

Where's the evidence for your assertion? You claim saying they the vote liberal isn't xenophobic because they do. Do they? Xenophobia doesn't mean you hate or even dislike immigrants. It means you're unreasonably scared of them and make assumptions based on that fear. They're not being brought in to be a voting block.

The idea that increasing immigration is a political plot to dilute the vote of the current citizens has zero evidence for it and would be pretty much impossible to do without a lot more oversight on exactly which ethnicities they're allowing in and where they settle. Then you have the problem that immigrants don't vote. It's like the $#lttiest plan ever.

There absolutely are complex impacts to immigration that can be bad like housing, education, healthcare, etc. It may even affect elections! To make assertions about it means to ignore your bias and look for facts

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by curves2000

In my cultural community, the overwhelming love the older generation has for the PM and party that brought in a lot of them into Canada in the 60's and 70's is shocking. They have Pierre Trudeau on a different level in terms of higher standard, almost to the point where it's strange to the younger generation. The level of dislike for his son is totally opposite. I do think there is some level of loyalty and admiration to the party and PM that does bring in you in, no matter who the party was.



The Harper government worked very very hard to court immigrant votes and support, the classic right hand man Jason Kenney was known as attend an insane amount of cultural events to drum up support. It was a key reason Harper won multiple elections and it was strange how they blew it up in 2015 with stupid talk about barbaric cultural practices tip line. A lot of wasted work.



I can tell you in my wide ranging circle of immigrant cultural backgrounds, a lot of people didn't have a clue about Canadian politics but they knew Kenney and voted for him and the Conservatives federally and provincially specially cause he was a regular at their church, mosque, synagogue, cultural center and more.

I grew up in an immigrant family. Both my parents were immigrants with my mom coming to Canada in the 50's and my dad in the 70's. We grew up with a lot of other immigrants from the same place, and my mom's family settled in a town with hundreds of other first or second generation immigrants from the same place. They're all 100% conservative voters who hated Pierre Trudeau with every fiber of their being and have been conservative voters their whole lives. Literally many hundreds of them.

My anecdotal situation tells me absolutely nothing about the national immigrant landscape though. You need data for that. A personal story is quaint, but it's not supportive of any argument that immigrants vote in a particular way. They're not a monolith

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Weitz

If you’re getting offers for $100,000 over the house was very poorly listed. But sometimes people low ball the listing to try and get a bidding war. Good realtors will list for close to max value and still sell quickly.

If you low ball the listing you should be doing it by $10-$15k. It's very risky being $100k under because you could get an offer $75k above list which sounds amazing but you still might be selling $25k under. Definitely a bad realtor or a bad strategy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Where's the evidence for your assertion? You claim saying they the vote liberal isn't xenophobic because they do. Do they? Xenophobia doesn't mean you hate or even dislike immigrants. It means you're unreasonably scared of them and make assumptions based on that fear. They're not being brought in to be a voting block.

The idea that increasing immigration is a political plot to dilute the vote of the current citizens has zero evidence for it and would be pretty much impossible to do without a lot more oversight on exactly which ethnicities they're allowing in and where they settle. Then you have the problem that immigrants don't vote. It's like the $#lttiest plan ever.

There absolutely are complex impacts to immigration that can be bad like housing, education, healthcare, etc. It may even affect elections! To make assertions about it means to ignore your bias and look for facts

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....oral-behaviour

Ethnicity, race and immigration play an important role in shaping political party preferences. Racialized Canadians (see Visible Minority) tend to be far more supportive of the Liberal Party than other Canadians. This is in line with how, historically, immigrants have been more likely to support the Liberals. However, there is evidence that the Conservative Party has made significant gains among white immigrants in recent years, particularly under Prime Minister Stephen Harper — to the extent that the Liberals no longer have a distinct advantage.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/i...ction-results/

A nation of immigrants
Residents of the 184 Liberal ridings are more likely to be new Canadians — about one in four were born outside Canada. (The Canadian average is about 20 per cent)

Of the 10 Canadian ridings with the highest percentage of immigrants, eight went Liberal.

Two, Richmond Centre and Markham-Unionville, stayed Conservative. Each of these ridings had comparatively few recent immigrants compared to the other eight.

Of the 30 Canadian ridings whose populations are more than 50 per cent immigrants, all but four voted Liberal.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....oral-behaviour



https://globalnews.ca/news/2291301/i...ction-results/

I’m not sure you even read those links, considering neither support the idea that immigrants vote for the party that was in power when they immigrated and both actually refute the Liberals having an advantage (the second article is talking about the 2015 election, the first where the Liberals came back to power, and contrasts it to 2011 where they had no advantage in immigration… you’d think their advantage would decrease the longer the previous party was in power considering that would mean more immigrants coming in).

Doesn’t hurt to actually think these things through.