2018 Blue Jays Season Thread

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by cross16

That's all fair. I'm actually ok with Drury as a player I was just hoping for a prospect with some more upside. Seems to be a player with a solid floor, MLB caliber player, but a low ceiling.

He's basically another Solarte... now, I like Solarte, but not so much that I want two of him. I'd be pretty good with getting him as the 2nd piece in a deal but as the KEY piece? Nah-uh.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Parallex

He's basically another Solarte... now, I like Solarte, but not so much that I want two of him. I'd be pretty good with getting him as the 2nd piece in a deal but as the KEY piece? Nah-uh.

I guess it gives them the option to move Solarte (which i've read they've listened on) but it all seems very lateral at best. Hopefully there is in fact a good prospect in the deal as well.

Seems like it's done.

Ben Nicholson-Smith
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Per @jonmorosi, #BlueJays have agreed to trade J.A. Happ to #Yankees

[Jason14h]

I wonder if the Yankees would want Martin if we pay his salary?

Sanchez is horrid at D, and hurt.

Martin would give them a veteran who can allow Sanchez to DH or play 1b more next year as well

[cross16]

Right now, Buzz seems to be this is Drury and OF Billy McKinney (their 20th ranked prospect) for Happ....

That's.. underwhelming

Jon Heyman
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Hearing Billy McKinney is likely going to jays in Happ trade #yankees

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I wonder if the Yankees would want Martin if we pay his salary?

... the only reason I'd want to move Martin would be to move his salary. Don't see the point if we need to keep paying it (would rather keep him to mentor Jansen).

Originally Posted by cross16

Right now, Buzz seems to be this is Drury and OF Billy McKinney (their 20th ranked prospect) for Happ....

That's.. underwhelming

Jon Heyman
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Hearing Billy McKinney is likely going to jays in Happ trade #yankees

We'll see... Oh trade sounded worse when it was in the speculation phase so I'm not jumping to conclusions until we see the deets.

[Jason14h]

So we got more for Oh?

Although sounds like Atkins loves Drury so that isn’t the best nogotiating position to start from!

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

So we got more for Oh?

Although sounds like Atkins loves Drury so that isn’t the best nogotiating position to start from!

Nothing confirmed yet. I'd call the returns about even if Heyman's spec is correct depending on how you value Walls upside vs. Drury's floor.

Ken Rosenthal is echo'ing the spec... which means it's likely true. Boo. Why are we collecting utility infielders with questionable bats?

[cross16]

Seems to be done according to Rosenthal. Interesting too that he seems to really like it for Jays.

#Yankees getting J.A. Happ for Drury and Billy McKinney, per @Feinsand and @JonHeyman. Drury alone would be quite a score for #BlueJays. He is 25 with three more years of control, albeit with nowhere to play in NY. Happ is 35 and a rental.

I find this a little underwhelming but I don't think it's fair to say Oh got more. Both of these guys are hitting well at the upper levels and both seemed to hit better than the Rockies prospects at lower level. McKinney was a top 100 prospect between 15-16 and has was twice traded in some bigger deals (As to Cubs for Scrabble and then Cubs to Yankees for Aroldis).

I just find the lack of a real upside player quite puzzling, as well as more utility/outfielder players.

[cross16]

Heyman seems to like it as well...

Jon Heyman
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1m1 minute ago
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McKinney makes it two nice pieces for jays. so good job by them. @jonmorosi & @Joelsherman1 had parts of this trade as well.

Edit: Quick Fangraphs scouting report on Mckinney

Kiley McDaniel
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New Blue Jays LF Billy McKinney (for JA Happ) is LF fit, fringy runner w/below arm, but above avg raw power & flashes of 55 hit/power tools, looking more like power over hit w/in-game lift trending up. Ben Gamel type w/less exciting hair, still 40+ FV, MLB-ready, 50 FV ceiling.

[JTech780]

Drury is a good player, solid athlete, probably a better fielder than Solarte. I think he has more to show offensively. I don't know a whole lot about McKinney. I think with this trade they got 2 guys that come in and play this year and next, which I think is important.

I do wonder with getting Drury and the emergence of Lourdes Gurriel if that makes Solarte and Diaz expendable. Both would add solid depth to playoff teams.

[cross16]

Few times now i've seen Stroman's name pop up. for the right return I have no problem looking at dealing him. If you are going to rebuild, don't hold many off the table.

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Sources: #BlueJays, #Braves have discussed a Marcus Stroman trade, although there is no evidence of current progress. Story: https://www.mlb.com/news/marcus-stro...ed/c-287456830 … @MLB @MLBNetwork

[flames_fan_down_under]

That’s a pretty solid return for a rental arm. MLB ready Position player with years of control. I’m happy with that.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

That’s a pretty solid return for a rental arm. MLB ready Position player with years of control. I’m happy with that.

Seems like a couple of redundant pieces to me. I mean maybe they can flip some of the other redundancies for other players but on the face of it... it strikes me as a lot of stuff the Jays don't need.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Well the Jays need a lot of everything really. Acquire as many young-ish pieces and see what sticks to the wall. I love prospects with plus upside but the Jays also need 40 man roster level players. Solarte is 31 and isn’t really a long term piece, Neither is Diaz. Drury will be cheap and has some upside. Don’t get me wrong I’m not over the moon with this deal but I’m not disappointed.

As far as I’m concerned every position 1 through 9 is up for grabs.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Well the Jays need a lot of everything really. Acquire as many young-ish pieces and see what sticks to the wall. I love prospects with plus upside but the Jays also need 40 man roster level players. Solarte is 31 and isn’t really a long term piece, Neither is Diaz. Drury will be cheap and has some upside. Don’t get me wrong I’m not over the moon with this deal but I’m not disappointed.

As far as I’m concerned every position 1 through 9 is up for grabs.

I don't disagree with this but my only thought as it relates to Happ is I think the Jays would be wise to target more upside and I thought Happ was an opportunity to do so and those opportunities are not plentiful.

I think Jays are likely 2-3 seasons away, best case, to being realistically able to compete. Drury/Mckkinney fit that age range but at the same time why not swing and try to hit on someone who can be more than just an avg starter or a utility guy? that's my questions mark.

I also don't know negotiations well enough and perhaps those types were never on the table but I think that's why the deal is underwhelming to me.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Well the Jays need a lot of everything really.

YMMV but IMO the last thing the jays need is more utility infielders like Drury. I mean I'm fine with McKinney... the Jays aren't loaded with quality outfielders in the high minors (I'd like to see Dalton Pompey get another shot and Alford needs a bounceback year while showing health) but hte Jays are stocked to the gills with left side infielders

[cross16]

MLB.com has Mckinney as the 18th rated Blue Jays prospect after today's deal.

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=tor

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by cross16

MLB.com has Mckinney as the 18th rated Blue Jays prospect after today's deal.

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=tor

Ha! I was just about to mention that they updated their rankings today.

Things to note...

Trades:
Mckinney at 18
Wall at 24
Espinal at 22

2018 Draftees
Groshans at 8
Kloffenstein at 12
Conine at 16
Wymer at 25

Risers:
Kevin Smith at 6
Biggio at 9

[Jason14h]

Why get a 25 year old utility INF...


Oh right because Rogers can't face a proper tear down! I sure hope we can patch together a 70 win team for next season!



This return makes zero sense to me. I'd rather shoot for the moon with prospects then bring in a 25 year old.


And why aren't we getting any arms in these deals...

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Why get a 25 year old utility INF...


Oh right because Rogers can't face a proper tear down! I sure hope we can patch together a 70 win team for next season!



This return makes zero sense to me. I'd rather shoot for the moon with prospects then bring in a 25 year old.


And why aren't we getting any arms in these deals...

FWIW....
Ben Nicholson-Smith
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55m55 minutes ago
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#BlueJays expect to shift focus to controllable pitching now per Ross Atkins. “We’re at the point now where our position player talent is very, very strong and it’d be hard to really upgrade"

Currently reading "The Cubs Way" which profiles the Cubs run to the end the World Series curse and there is some really interesting stuff about how Epstein targeted position players early, especially in the draft. They felt their research shows them position players are safer in the sense they bust less often and are less temperamental than arms. They also felt that while a pitcher can lead a staff it's really difficult for a pitcher to lead a team and they wanted to emphasize character in their rebuild so they went all position players early (Bryant, Schwarber, Alomara etc) instead of the traditional model which told you to stack up on pitching.

Thought it was an interesting read given how the Jays have gone about business recently as well. Pat Gillick also has a similar philosophy, he would always take the hitter if he had a hitter and a pitcher rated the same in the draft.