Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[belsarius]

LA has had an 8 game win streak. Winnipeg just finished a 6-0-1 point streak. Teams streak, the good teams limit the losing streaks and capitalize on the winning ones. Gulutzan has been good at minimizing the losing streaks, and the team is taking advantage of their current good play.

If you break it down into 7 game segments, the Flames have gone
4-3-0
4-3-0
4-2-1
2-4-1
4-2-1
4-2-1
3-0-0

There was one rough patch at the end of November/Start of December. That is the only series the Flames have lost this season, they have won every other one. Seems pretty consistent to me.

[ignite09]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Man, I know you're a mod but you are getting insufferable.

Yeah, people who disagree with your opinion are just the worst.

[Red]

Originally Posted by the2bears

You really dislike his last comment so much?

Dude is a definition of a troll.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by the2bears

You really dislike his last comment so much?

Textcritic is insufferable whenever you're on the other side of him in a debate. It's part of his charm.

The key is to be on the same side as him, then it's lots of fun!

Sadly, I disagree with him on this coach. Fortunately, the Flames are winning a lot lately, so I don't mind so much. And his scathing posts about Edmonton and Winnipeg will always delight me!

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Textcritic is insufferable whenever you're on the other side of him in a debate. It's part of his charm.

The key is to be on the same side as him, then it's lots of fun!

Sadly, I disagree with him on this coach. Fortunately, the Flames are winning a lot lately, so I don't mind so much. And his scathing posts about Edmonton and Winnipeg will always delight me!

He really does wind Resurrection up tight with his Winnipeg commentary

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Man, I know you're a mod but you are getting insufferable.

careful

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Red

Kind of a low bar, no?...

It is maybe not so low if we view the Flames, TML, and Oilers at a stage of emerging from rebuild. All three of these teams have made significant front office and coaching changes within the past four years, and all three have been building towards younger, core groups of home-grown high-end talent.

[GullFoss]

I think the following arguments still have validity:
1) GG's regulation record is not good
2) The power play is still terri-bad
3) The team seemingly chokes in meaningful games

That said, the past 15-20 games or so, there are some very clear encouraging signs:
1) 5-on-5 dominance
2) the emergence of Sam Bennett
3) Better use of personnel
4) Defence look engaged and activated to join the rush
5) Defensive zone play is much improved and aggressive. PK has improved markedly
6) Brodie and Hamonic pairing drastically improved
7) All the offensive units are now cycling the puck (vs just the second line at the beginning of the year)

Call me crazy, but in my view the current 7 game win streak is a lot more meaningful than the 10 game win streak last year. Its more convincing - the flames decent hockey on the 10 game win streak, backed up by hot goaltending. In this win streak, the flames have seemingly dominated 5-on-5 play though the line-up, with goaltending being solid rather than lights out.

[Red]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I think the following arguments still have validity:
1) GG's regulation record is not good
2) The power play is still terri-bad
3) The team seemingly chokes in meaningful games

That said, the past 15-20 games or so, there are some very clear encouraging signs:
1) 5-on-5 dominance
2) the emergence of Sam Bennett
3) Better use of personnel
4) Defence look engaged and activated to join the rush
5) Defensive zone play is much improved and aggressive. PK has improved markedly
6) Brodie and Hamonic pairing drastically improved
7) All the offensive units are now cycling the puck (vs just the second line at the beginning of the year)

Call me crazy, but in my view the current 7 game win streak is a lot more meaningful than the 10 game win streak last year. Its more convincing - the flames decent hockey on the 10 game win streak, backed up by hot goaltending. In this win streak, the flames have seemingly dominated 5-on-5 play though the line-up, with goaltending being solid rather than lights out.

Good points and I think the bolded is why. The PP is not great, but at least they are threatening now with Gio on the first unit.

The D looks better and at the same time it seems that Smith isn't playing the puck as much. Perhaps that really was a problem?

Let's hope they continue to play this well. The division is still up for grabs.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Fun fact:

The Flames are now the top Canadian team over the last two years (Gulutzan's reign)

1) WAS: 83-33-11
12) SJS: 68-42-13
13) CAL: 70-49-8
14) TOR: 65-44-18
15) EDM: 67-49-12

I think we are also the best in the mountain time zone.

[Textcritic]

This is a good post, but a couple of things:

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I think the following arguments still have validity:
1) GG's regulation record is not good

There is still room to improve. No question.

2) The power play is still terri-bad

17.1% since 15 December, and 22.2% since 31 December. It is no longer "terribad," and while it is not great, I would say that it is approaching better-than-average as of late.

3) The team seemingly chokes in meaningful games.

In the past several weeks the Flames have played six games against teams that are currently bunched up with them in the standings. In those games they have a 4-1-1 record, with one of those wins in OT. In addition, they just walked into Tampa Bay and beat the best team in the NHL. I don't think it is remotely accurate to say that the Flames have a tendency to "choke" in meaningful games. There have been a couple disappointing losses at important times to the wrong teams (losses to Vancouver on 7 November and to SJ on 15 December come to mind), but it seems to me overall that they have been much better in these pressure situations than not.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Again
The coach does have the say
The gm makes the decision on player movement including who gets sent down
Put down the shovel

Also, what has this become, the "I told you so" thread?

Come on everyone, can't we all get along? This team looks damn fantastic these days. Isn't that enough to bring us all together.

Why is being right more important than the team winning?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I think the following arguments still have validity:
1) GG's regulation record is not good
2) The power play is still terri-bad
3) The team seemingly chokes in meaningful games

That said, the past 15-20 games or so, there are some very clear encouraging signs:
1) 5-on-5 dominance
2) the emergence of Sam Bennett
3) Better use of personnel
4) Defence look engaged and activated to join the rush
5) Defensive zone play is much improved and aggressive. PK has improved markedly
6) Brodie and Hamonic pairing drastically improved
7) All the offensive units are now cycling the puck (vs just the second line at the beginning of the year)

Call me crazy, but in my view the current 7 game win streak is a lot more meaningful than the 10 game win streak last year. Its more convincing - the flames decent hockey on the 10 game win streak, backed up by hot goaltending. In this win streak, the flames have seemingly dominated 5-on-5 play though the line-up, with goaltending being solid rather than lights out.

Good points, but one negative point you missed is that the GG Flames have never beaten the oilers. Not even in preseason. I've put my pitchfork back in the closet for now, but if the Flames don't regularly start curb stomping that useless franchise again, it's coming back out.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Good points, but one negative point you missed is that the GG Flames have never beaten the oilers. Not even in preseason. I've put my pitchfork back in the closet for now, but if the Flames don't regularly start curb stomping that useless franchise again, it's coming back out.

I covered that in "seemingly can't win meaningful games"

[Strange Brew]

Personally I narrow the improvement down to 3 things:

1) The defense, particularly Brodie and Hamonic have almost done a 180 in terms of turnovers and mental errors. The improvement is stark.

2) The PK is excellent

3) The teams personnel is better than at the start of the year. Faster, more energetic and creating momentum even when not scoring. And with Janko, more skill too.

The first line is great lately but they were great at start of year too. It’s GG’s team so he gets credit insofar as he gets blame when they’re losing. I like the guy so as long as they win, good for him. Now let’s not pretend we are at anything other than game 45 or so of a long season. They are not winning every game from here on out.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Also worth mentioning here is that in the same period of time that Gulutzan has coached the team the Flames have a record of 50-0-2 when leading after two periods. That is exceptional

It's great. But the two years prior under Hartley the team was 50-3-4 when leading after two periods, with far worse goaltending (unless you'd rather have Hiller, Ramo, Ortio over Elliott, Smith, Rittich, Johnson).

It seems a bit misleading to be attributing this to Gulutzan. It seems far more likely that most of it is due to our 3v3 dominance + generally being a team that holds on to leads well due to our puck moving D.

[Corral]

It was inevitable this would become an 'I told you so' thread. As others have noted, such a knee-jerk reaction and the fire GG crowd was hunting for blood.

Can we at least get rid of the poll on this thread. It really looks dumb now.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

The snek thread suggests they are more consistent this year
Apart from winning every game what does consistency look like to you?

If the team was more consistent I would know which team was going to show up for each game. Before this win streak, I literally had no idea how they were going to play from night to night (more often than not they looked like a really bad team getting carried by Smith). I mean, despite the fact that they were over .500 we still had a poll with 70% of people wanting him fired.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm not convinced yet.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Wow.. lots of fighting going on in this thread. Kind of surprised by it.

As far as the "Treliving or Gulutzan" making roster decisions (i.e. Jankowski being sent down), it USUALLY is a combination of BOTH. It really depends on their relationship.

We haven't heard much from Gulutzan, but I remember Hartley speaking about this well during his tenure. He would let Treliving (and Feaster, and Burke) know what he was missing on the roster. He would also regularly chat with the AHL coach, see who is hot, etc. He would also ask Ward/Huska who was hot, who is deserving to fit into a specific role he needed on the Flames.

I am betting that is a fairly similar relationship that is happening now. With Jankowski, it wasn't as simple as making the coaching decision. There are waivers to consider for existing players, opportunities to shore up depth at the start of the season, etc. Getting Jagr was a good move organizationally (and culturally). Sometimes you simply can't field the best possible team because you need to account for injuries down the road, and keeping a guy that is waiver eligible or even signing additional depth isn't the wrong move. You don't win the cup without depth in this league, and I would prefer a GM (and a coach that agrees) that sometimes you have to set yourself back marginally in order to assure you have it in place.

As for this thread being an 'embarrassment' - no, it isn't. I am surprised that Textcritic would blast the entire board in this way. There was plenty to criticize Gulutzan about. The slow starts. The atrocious defensive play of this highly skilled defence group. The inability to score. The team was not firing on all cylinders, and was not doing so for a very long time. I still think the Flames managed to stay where they are thanks to a number of really lousy teams this year in the Pacific.

Gulutzan now seems to have his team more prepared (how many games did they not look prepared to start the year?)
Gulutzan has this team playing (mostly) strong team defence (and Smith covering up when needed, but DEFINITELY not as much)
Gulutzan is not over-playing the 4th line as much
Gulutzan is making stronger in-game decisions and adjustments (seemingly, anyway).

Nobody should still be on the 'fire Gulutzan' bandwagon any longer. I think he is doing a solid job right now, and if he continues to do so (even better - continues to improve) then I think he is deserving of at least finishing out his contract and then thinking about an extension even.

The playoffs is a different animal altogether. This is where the 'savvy coach' often makes the young and inexperienced coach look foolish. Bylsma and Sullivan being exceptions here (on an extremely talented team). Terry Crisp also being a notable exception here as well. Hopefully Gulutzan also proves to be an exception as well.

I think people were right to be critical of Gulutzan (well, ignoring some of the 'over the top' posters who were essentially spamming the board). This thread holds a lot of that spam, but it also contains a LOT of thorough, insightful posts about Gulutzan. Actually, thorough and insightful posts that were both good and bad.

The overwhelming majority wanted to see change. I would be curious to know why a large segment didn't want to see change. From my own perspective, I not only didn't like to see what was going on with the team for too many games this season, but I also thought that this team was a much better team than their position in the standings.

I wonder if SOME of the people that voted no did so because they felt that this team wasn't that good. I know a lot of posters kept insisting that this team is just not that good, and that their position in the standings is reflective of that, and that no coach - Gulutzan or otherwise - was going to make this team better.

Valid thread today as it was last month. Brought out a lot of good discussion, the unfortunate amount of vitriol and spam as well, but a good thread that was very much relevant to the Flames and their predicament at the time. Also, I didn't buy the 'Flames are winning the CORSI battle' that some trotted out here. The Oilers often won the CORSI battle even under Eakins (especially later on in his tenure). That means nothing to me (or rather, next to nothing). I didn't see a team that battled enough, that created enough and went to the dirty areas enough. Now I do.

It is always going to be an argument about whether it is the coach that is to blame or the players. In the end, I think it is always about both, but it ends up falling on the shoulders of the coach - right or wrong. The coach has the option to bench players, change up the lines, assign responsibilities, etc.. Yes, the players might fail in the execution. The coach might fail in setting expectations. There is always a bit of a battle there. That is why often good coaches that are very experienced and who have won a tonne of awards get canned.

A relatively inexperienced coach leading a team that appeared to be disjointed? Yeah, I don't see why this thread was such an outlandish thing to have. Some of the posters that were continually spamming and taking personal pot-shots at the coach (and other posters!), sure, that was the embarrassment. But this thread was a very relevant one considering what we were seeing with the Flames.

As of right now, Gulutzan has this team playing well. I look forward to seeing the rest of the season, and definitely look forward to seeing the playoffs. I don't have any real expectations regarding him at this point - keeping my mind open either way, as I don't dislike him nor do I think he is exceptional either. The playoffs is where I think we will really get to see whether he has improved as a head coach or not. This is what I have said before as well - when a team hires an inexperienced head coach, it is much like having a young team. You have to be patient with some growing pains. In-game adjustments have been better. Personnel decisions have been better. Hopefully he continues to improve, and with it the Flames as well.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Wow.. lots of text

Coles notes? Readers Digest? Encyclopedia Britannica? GIF of something getting crushed by a press? Is there any other way to read this? Character limit of 10,000 exceeded.