Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

Sutter is not just a motivator though, imo he is a master at running the bench and managing the game. His teams are prepared, and come to play.

Would love to see him back in Calgary.

He's also good at countering what ever the other team wants to do. It's a big reason why he's a better playoff coach than a regular season coach. He's at his best when he gets to focus on one team.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Rick M.

I bet Bennett would love playing for D. Sutter.

Yeah, left Bennett out. I dont disagree that Sutter's fondness for grit is overstated. And I think Calgary has at least average size and enough physical players to satisfy him.

Sutter aquired guys like Tanguay, Huselius, Jokinen, Cammi, Bourque, Langkow. So he's not vehemently against non-physical guys. Or even smallish ones if they are decent.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

IMO Sutter is desired by some because he's seen as a motivator, and not an Xes and Os guy - kind of the opposite of GG. I think that's unfair to both guys, but Sutter is a darn good coach and would be an upgrade if he came (and I'm not a fire GG guy).

For an X and O guy, Gulutzan sure does not like to use them in a tight game. In the Ducks game when the took a timeout with 30 seconds left, you get a shot of Carlyle furiously setting up a defensive play on the board and yelling tactics at their players. should they lose the faceoff. The camera then shifts over to Gulutzan who's sitting looking pretty with no sense of urgency, no motivating. Sure enough, Flames get neutered.

I know some people really did not want Carlyle, but he is certainly a better coach than Gulutzan. Carlyle won a cup, Hartley won a cup, Sutter won a cup. Gulutzan has underachieved every year he has coached.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

CGY 44-49 .473, 0-4 PO

I don't think our roster is nearly that bad.

Originally Posted by JTech780

I get why people want to fire Gulutzan, but I just don't see why Darryl Sutter would be a good replacement, or why he would want to coach this team.

I'm curious can you name a coach you think would be a good fit?

[bubbsy]

Ferland, Tkatchuk, bennett, hathaway, lazar, brouwer(??), Giordano, Hamonic, Stone, backlund those are guys that could easily play a Sutter style game.

Then i also think Monahan, Jankowski, frolik, Hamilton could see improvement with Sutter at the helm in being tougher to play against.

It would be really interesting to see Sutter coach this group. I think it's a pipe dream though.

[Table 5]

Would any fences have to be mended before he’d consider coming back to Calgary? Was there any bad blood between him and the ownership/King when he left? I kind forget the circumstances of his exit apart from the team being a general mess.

While I’m not totally convinced this team is built for his style, seeing what Sutter could do with this team is definitely very intriguing. If not else, it might finally provide some entertainment factor again.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Does anyone remember the quote from Darryl when he first started coaching here, and said something like "we have to win the season series against the Oilers if we want to be a playoff team"?

I can't find it on google, and CP's search doesn't seem to go back that far.

It wasn't just about beating the Oilers it was about
making the players believe.Darryl understood if the players are going to buy in they have to believe in the bigger picture. When players are focused on systems and small problems it's hard to believe in the bigger picture as a team. Darryls quote also gave a starting point for motivating the team to focus on the concrete goal of playing to win.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yes Sutter likes big, bruising players, but he's also the type of coach that can adapt his system to fit the personalities on the team.

The Kings were never that big of a team either.

Wasn't one of the reasons he was let go by the Kings, that he wasn't adapting to the changing NHL, that was moving away from his slower physical style to a more uptempo speed game?

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by zamler

I don't think our roster is nearly that bad.

I'm curious can you name a coach you think would be a good fit?

I gave my answer to that in the rest of my original post.

At the moment I don't see a clear upgrade available, I prefer Tippett to Sutter myself, but I would rather wait till the off season to see if any of Vigneault, Trotz or Quenneville become available, before we lock ourselves into another coach.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by JTech780

...but I would rather wait till the off season to see if any of Vigneault, Trotz or Quenneville become available, before we lock ourselves into another coach.

This actually makes a lot of sense. I don't agree that we should make any major trades.

[kukkudo]

I think what will happen if anything happens. They keep GG for the remainder of season, and grab a top 6 forward via trade.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Firebot

For an X and O guy, Gulutzan sure does not like to use them in a tight game. In the Ducks game when the took a timeout with 30 seconds left, you get a shot of Carlyle furiously setting up a defensive play on the board and yelling tactics at their players. should they lose the faceoff. The camera then shifts over to Gulutzan who's sitting looking pretty with no sense of urgency, no motivating. Sure enough, Flames get neutered.

I know some people really did not want Carlyle, but he is certainly a better coach than Gulutzan. Carlyle won a cup, Hartley won a cup, Sutter won a cup. Gulutzan has underachieved every year he has coached.

Made up. Gulutzan has probably only really underachieved this year in terms of results, and then only by a 2 win margin thus far.

Those Dallas teams were god awful. During period of time that stretches 3 years before he was hired to the 2 years after, the team's standings in the West looked like this:12, 12, 9, 10, 11, 8, 10.

Don't see how anyone can see taking a previously 25th place team to a 15th place team an underachievement.

I really hate the, "my inference is that he sucks by how he looks on the bench" take. And I hope you realize you're making that inference based on insufficient information, but you are welcome to form bad opinions based on low information all you want. Just don't make stuff up.

[madmike]

I'm still kind of torn. His system in general seems to be working. The Flames have gone from an advanced stats dog to an advanced stats darling.

But I don't know if he's a great motivator. I also don't love how he uses his lines. And the special teams are abysmal. That's not entirely on Gulutzan, but I don't understand why Cameron is still around.

Some of the issue though is clearly the players. They seem to excel in whiffing on high-percentage scoring chances and there's really not much GG can do about that. NHL-calibre players need to bury high-percentage chances and no amount of coaching can help there.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Sutter also likes to have his team's be big and physical, this team doesn't have a much either attribute. So I just can't see this team being a Sutter style team.

Not so much big and physical (which he doesn't mind at all), but aggressive and hard on the puck. GG's system tends to be - if one can read it - to do a lot more stick work to interrupt plays than to use physicality and immediate presence to separate opponents from the puck.

It's one of the reasons the Flames so often get hemmed in their own zone: you can't regain control of the puck by sticks alone. You can deflect it (sometimes into your own net, or occasionally outside the blue line), you can intercept it, somewhat less often with hard passes, or you can continue to lose possession of it. That's what seems to happen. By playing an aggressive "on the puck at all costs" type of game (think '04 Flames which weren't so big) one can counter that control of the puck by the opposition quite effectively. The Flames simply don't play that way today. Sutter I think would change that as the first course of action. Maybe any other coach would, too?

To me that is the worst flaw in the D-system; they are simply far too passive.

It appears less so in the O-zone when guys like Frolik, Bennett and Tkachuk are hard on the puck and get opposing D-men to cough it up, creating chances. Sticks here are good as they also provide chances via tips/deflections and opportunities at the blue line.

But the current version of the Flames is, IMNSHO, far too passive.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by _Q_

Yes Sutter likes big, bruising players, but he's also the type of coach that can adapt his system to fit the personalities on the team.

The Kings were never that big of a team either.

What?

Top 9 forwards were

6' 3" 225lb
6' 3" 220lb
6' 1" 195lb
6' 0" 200lb
6' 4" 235lb
6' 0" 200lb
6' 0" 215lb
6' 1" 220lb
6' 1" 210lb

Top 6 defense were

6' 1" 210lb
6' 0" 195lb
6' 3" 215lb
6' 3" 225lb
6' 3" 210lb
6' 3" 230lb

That was as big and heavy a team that the NHL has seen in the last 25 years. Monstrous even.

Among the forwards, guys like Jordan Nolan and Kyle Clifford arent included in that list....both well over 6' and 200 lbs.

Sutter coches a game where you have to have size throughout the line up or you will be completely worn out or injured if you arent mostly that size. There is always room for a couple smaller players with his club as long as they are extremely skilled, but for the rest of em? Big is good.

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

What makes anyone think Sutter even wants to return to this organization and coach?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Does anyone remember the quote from Darryl when he first started coaching here, and said something like "we have to win the season series against the Oilers if we want to be a playoff team"?

I can't find it on google, and CP's search doesn't seem to go back that far.

Yeah, I seem to recall that as well and cannot find it anywhere neither.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Hey Connor, It's Mess

What makes anyone think Sutter even wants to return to this organization and coach?

Do you have any solid evident that he does not want to return to this organization and coach?

[Badgers Nose]

I'm not convinced he should be fired.

But he needs to make some hard choices on his assistants if they don't fix the special teams.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

I don't think stifling the offense of our best player is a good solution to scoring woes, nor a particularly good solution to defensive woes when you have 30M tied up on the back end.

People here will want Darryl Sutter gone after 2 years if he does not get the team to the conference finals because they will be so sick of watching boring Flames hockey and having to struggle to watch games against other defensive teams.