Canadian Military News

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/perm...s%20by%20March.



Bodies are needed

One of the bigger issues is that they're losing the experienced pool of soldiers, pilots, naval personal (especially in ship and sub borne roles). So and you know this, just flooding the forces with recruits, and reducing the requirements is probably going to make things worse. they have to address the attrition. which means better pay and benefits, better housing, less deployments. As well properly equipping and training improvements, and better leadership.

From what it sounds like, they're going to just recruit, reduce training norms and hope it fixes it.

It won't.

[CaptainCrunch]

BAHAHAHAHA who negotiates these things?

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...nical-problems

The repairs to HMCS Harry DeWolf won’t be covered by Irving Shipbuilding because the warranty for the company’s workmanship on the vessel, delivered in 2020, was only for one year, a National Defence spokesperson said.

Canada’s new Arctic patrol ship HMCS Harry DeWolf will be out of service until April because of ongoing mechanical problems, but the military doesn’t yet have an idea how much repairs are going to cost taxpayers.

In addition, a second Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ship, HMCS Max Bernays, was accepted in September from Irving Shipbuilding even though a system that allows the vessel to manoeuvre wasn’t functioning properly, this newspaper confirmed.

The problems are affecting the vessel’s four main diesel generators that provide electrical power and ship propulsion. HMCS Harry DeWolf left Halifax on Aug. 15 for an Arctic exercise, but already one of its main diesel generators was inoperable. Several days later, when the ship was off the east coast of Newfoundland and Labrador, another of the main diesel generators failed, forcing a return to Halifax.

But the failure of the main diesel generators is just the latest in a series of mechanical problems for HMCS Harry DeWolf. The vessel was to have joined in on the Arctic exercise, Operation Nanook, in early August, but was left in port because its fire suppression system wasn’t working properly. Sailors told this newspaper that system had been out of service for about a month.

With the fire suppression system repaired, HMCS Harry DeWolf left Halifax, but then the generator problems emerged. The Royal Canadian Navy stated that the failure was an “isolated incident”.

But in October 2020 the Canadian Press reported HMCS Harry DeWolf was forced to return to port after its freshwater generator and communications systems failed. It was while the ship was docked that the crew also found the cooling pumps on two of the ship’s four diesel generators had broken, the news service reported. HMCS Harry DeWolf was officially delivered by Irving to the navy on July 31, 2020.

The AOPS program has, over the years, faced delays and spending increases. Under the original timetable, the first AOPS was to have been delivered in 2013, with Arctic operations set for 2015.

In January 2015, the federal government announced it had awarded Irving Shipbuilding a $2.6-billion contract to build five AOPS. In 2018, that deal was expanded to add a sixth vessel. National Defence currently lists the project as costing taxpayers a little more than $4.3 billion.

In 2017, the Senate Defence Committee raised concerns about the vessels’ capabilities. “This (concern) is based on the fact that these ships cannot operate in ice more than a metre thick, are slower than a BC Ferry, can only operate in the Arctic from June to October and will require a Coast Guard escort when in the northern waters,” the senators pointed out in their report. “These limitations are troubling and raise the question of whether the taxpayers are receiving value for the monies spent.”

So not only did Irving build a really ####ty non capable boat. But there's zero accountability because some doofus didn't read the contract of a boat with a one year warranty which is sheer lunacy.

[photon]

Should have paid with a Credit Card, could have doubled that to 2.

[speede5]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So not only did Irving build a really ####ty non capable boat. But there's zero accountability because some doofus didn't read the contract of a boat with a one year warranty which is sheer lunacy.

You're not going to like the warranty we get with the F-35 much then.

[Harry Lime]

The Australians are crapping all over their purchase of the F-35s, worried that they won't have operational ability against a Chinese aggressor, due to updated firmware not being available until 2027 and the range of the fighters not reaching the borders of their own airspace. Buyers remorse there.

[Envitro]

Originally Posted by photon

Should have paid with a Credit Card, could have doubled that to 2.

Or bought it through Costco for the extra warranty, plus you'd be able to return it 10 years after you bought it for a full refund.

[CaptainCrunch]

More signs that our Military is basically rusted out and non capable.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9349314/c...medium=Twitter

Canada will not send fighter jets to patrol NATO airspace for Russian incursions next year, the first time that Canadian CF-18s will be absent from the skies over Europe since 2017.
While the decision is being blamed on the need to upgrade the CF-18s and train more personnel, it has nonetheless raised eyebrows given the West’s current tensions with Russia and the ongoing war in Ukraine.

Many of the Air Force’s aircraft and personnel are currently tied up on “modernization activities,” Le Bouthillier said, which includes upgrading Canada’s aging CF-18s so they can fly and fight for the foreseeable future.
“Moreover, the RCAF is also focusing on training new and existing fighter pilots and technicians as part of our ongoing reconstitution efforts,” he added.
Canada’s auditor general warned in 2018 that the CF-18s risked being outmatched by more advanced adversaries due to a lack of upgrades since 2008. The Air Force has been working to add new weapons, sensors and defensive systems to the fleet.

Shortage of pilots, I doubt that the current frames and engines can handle the deployment. They can't properly interact with NATO datalinks, and they'd probably get blown out of the sky by newer planes with more advanced off boresight missiles.

[CaptainCrunch]

God damn pathetic. I bet Irving made a ton of profit on building these pieces of crap.

https://nationalpost.com/news/nation...box=1671148591

A probe revealed some fittings and valves in the potable water system were manufactured from alloys that exceeded the allowable amount of lead, DND confirmed

Drinking water on board the Canadian navy’s new fleet of Arctic patrol ships is believed to be contaminated with lead, forcing the military to provide crews with bottled water.

An investigation has revealed that some fittings and valves in the potable water system were manufactured from alloys that exceeded the allowable amount of lead, National Defence has confirmed. Irving Shipbuilding installed the fittings and valves on HMCS Harry DeWolf, HMCS Margaret Brooke, HMCS Max Bernays, and HMCS William Hall.

Royal Canadian Navy sailors contacted this newspaper to provide details of the potentially lead-contaminated water as they believed the navy and National Defence were trying to hide the problem from the public.

Information about the water problems was later confirmed by National Defence.

Irving Shipbuilding has come up with a solution to install a filtration system as well as potentially replace the problematic fittings and valves, National Defence noted in its statement. Taxpayers, however, could end up paying extra for that even though the department acknowledged that Irving used fittings and valves manufactured from alloys that exceeded lead requirements outlined in the build contract. Negotiations on who pays is currently under discussion, according to National Defence.

It shouldn't be a negotiation. Tell them if they don't fix these pieces of crap that they've built and if there's one fricken fault on the future surface combatant ships, then its the last contract they'll ever get. But then again The Irving's are close to the Liberal Party and the Trudeau family.

As it stands they promised on the Frigate build that they had the ship yards and equipment to build the type 26's, and now they're asking for a 3rd of a billion to upgrade their facilities. I had high hopes for Anita Anaud coming over from procurement, but she feels like the last Minister of National Defense without the honor stealing BS.

No wonder they're having recruiting problems in the Military. Substandard equipment being built, rusted out equipment that will get them blown away and a defense minister that had capital money to spend and sent it back to general accounting.

Our Military is on its way to being a constabulary, and would lose a battle to a semi determined boy scout troop.

[btimbit]

Irving family held accountable? Yeah right, they own the government

[CaptainCrunch]

At this point part of me thinks we should just stop trying to build our own Military Hardware. We can't seem to cost control anything. Our friends at Irving seem to be at the center of every cost over run, and when they build or refurbish it we get substandard results.

Our Military is rusting out, and by the time we get things built they don't work well, take too long and cost too much. Maybe for the next couple of generations we buy off the shelf.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...by-780-million

The cost of Canada’s new Arctic and Offshore Patrol ships has jumped by another $780 million over the last year, according to figures provided by the federal government.

Last year the project cost for the six ships for the Royal Canadian Navy was listed at around $4.3 billion. That has now increased to $4.98 billion, according to the government.

In addition, the new figures show that the cost of two AOPS for the Canadian Coast Guard has increased from $1.5 billion to $1.6 billion.

Last month this newspaper reported that the first AOPS, HMCS Harry DeWolf, will be out of service until April because of ongoing mechanical problems, but the military doesn’t yet have an idea how much repairs are going to cost.

Concerns have also been raised about the safety of the drinking water on the AOPS. An investigation revealed that some fittings and valves in the potable water system were manufactured from alloys that exceeded the allowable amount of lead, National Defence confirmed. Irving Shipbuilding installed the fittings and valves on HMCS Harry DeWolf, HMCS Margaret Brooke, HMCS Max Bernays, and HMCS William Hall.

The AOPS program has, over the years, faced delays and cost increases. In January 2015, the federal government originally announced it had awarded Irving Shipbuilding a $2.6-billion contract to build five AOPS. In 2018, that deal was expanded to add a sixth vessel.

But in 2017, the Senate Defence Committee raised concerns about the capabilities of the Arctic and Offshore Patrol Ships. “This (concern) is based on the fact that these ships cannot operate in ice more than a metre thick, are slower than a BC Ferry, can only operate in the Arctic from June to October and will require a Coast Guard escort when in the northern waters,” the senators pointed out in their report. “These limitations are troubling and raise the question of whether the taxpayers are receiving value for the monies spent.”

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

At this point part of me thinks we should just stop trying to build our own Military Hardware. We can't seem to cost control anything. Our friends at Irving seem to be at the center of every cost over run, and when they build or refurbish it we get substandard results.

Our Military is rusting out, and by the time we get things built they don't work well, take too long and cost too much. Maybe for the next couple of generations we buy off the shelf.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...by-780-million

To be fair I wonder how much of this relates to cost inflation for materials and labor. In the O&G industry we are seeing ~20% year-over-year increase in overall projects as a result of material and labor costs. $4.3 to $5 B is roughly 16%....

[CaptainCrunch]

Sure part of it is that, but also remember Irving on the Future Warships program as part of their bid said their ship yards were capable of doing the work and that turned out to be not true and they're squeezing the govt for 300 million at least in ship yard upgrades.

We're also talking about now coastal ships that are subpar, arctic ships that aren't really arctic ships.

We're getting what feels like bad products at inflated prices.

[Julio]

F-35 deal offically official:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...deal-1.6707769

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Julio

F-35 deal offically official:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...deal-1.6707769

https://twitter.com/user/status/1612479013720829952

Interesting about face from the PM.

[Looch City]

That's it, I'm voting for PP.

That was the FINAL straw!!1

[btimbit]

I actually have to give the liberals credit for this one. They said they wouldn't buy them, held an open competition, then were willing to admit they were wrong when they won the competition.

Delaying also meant we're getting much upgraded planes than if we bought them 7 years ago. That's more of an accidental benefit but I'll count it

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I actually have to give the liberals credit for this one. They said they wouldn't buy them, held an open competition, then were willing to admit they were wrong when they won the competition.

Delaying also meant we're getting much upgraded planes than if we bought them 7 years ago. That's more of an accidental benefit but I'll count it

The open competition was pretty laughable actually.

They didn't change any of the requirements that came from the Conservative study.

Dassault pulled out early with the Rafale because they knew the Rafale couldn't meet the five eyes interoperability requirements.

Boeing was bounced because of conflicts between the Government and Boeing and the Super Hornet wouldn't have a long lifespan.

The JAS 39E is a nice fighter, but in a side by side comparison of a 4th generation fighter to a 5th generation fighter, the sliding costs of the F35. It wasn't going to win.

This was a bunch of years of wasted dollars in time and studies, and it was done because the Liberals viewed this as a spiteful political excercise instead of doing what was right for the CAF. And in the end it cost of billions of dollars that could have been spent elsewhere.

If you look at the history of the Canadian Forces and procurement. The Airforce isn't a big air force so when you but a replacement plane it has to have a long future and a long upgrade path. The F-18's were bought 40 years ago. The expectation is that the F-35s are going to have a similar lifepan.

Though that could change as the first world airforces are rushing in their development of 6th generation air frames. So the whole, but a leading edge aircraft and hope it lasts that long might have to change.

I mean the whole opinion of the mature aircraft argument by the defense minister is a little bit misleading.

There haven't been any generational technology changes to the F-35 since the Cons decided on the F-35. Mainly the changes have been bug squashes. And by the time that we receive our first F-35's there will still be bug squashes happening.

I'm more concerned now about the armed forces having the pilots to man a relatively small air force. We're struggling with that now, just like the struggle to man the new future surface combatants.

I think the Liberals wasted a tremendous amount of time and money on the aircraft replacement.

Now the next battles will be around needed upgrades to the ground forces including air defense, and on the replacement program for the Navy's submarines.

[dammage79]

Oh I'm not worried about Pilot recruitment. Now that things are official they'll have a ton of joiners Lining up to fly them.

It really helps to have Shiney new things to dangle in front of new recruits.

I'd have preferred the Saab but that doesn't matter any more. The f-35 will draw pilots. Perhaps the bigger co cern might be recruiting and training techs to keep them airborne.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by dammage79

It really helps to have Shiney new things to dangle in front of new recruits.

It's not as sexy as F35 fast jets but don't forget about the four A330 MRTT's that were (rightly) sole sourced to Airbus. That should be formally awarded in 2023.

Interesting bit is how the Lockheed announcement showed Canada's F35's in a boom configuration for mid air refueling. Could be a stock photo, we'll see...

[TKB]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I actually have to give the liberals credit for this one. They said they wouldn't buy them, held an open competition, then were willing to admit they were wrong when they won the competition.

Delaying also meant we're getting much upgraded planes than if we bought them 7 years ago. That's more of an accidental benefit but I'll count it

Absolutely no benefit has been had by the morons canceling the F35 program when they got elected. Captain has said it all so I won’t rehash the absolute stupidity that we’ve got to witness over the past many years in-regards to this.