11-20-2019, 09:07 AM
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#1
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Franchise Player
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Calgary golf courses could have operations privatized - Mainly Due to Wages
Government run operations with wages "not even close to market".
https://livewirecalgary.com/2019/11/...-to-the-green/
In Tuesday’s extended version of this week’s combined meeting of council, councillors debated a matter of urgent business to develop a Request for Proposal (RFP) to secure a long-term golf course management contract for the operations and service of City of Calgary golf courses.
“The bottom line in the issue with golf courses is the wages,” Sutherland told LiveWire Calgary.
“The wages are not even close to market. And because they’re not even close to market, they’ve gone from a profitable position to a negative position and will get even worse, not better.”
One of the biggest hurdles in the process, Sutherland said, is the succession rules in their union contracts. Should the golf courses be contracted out, current personnel would be kept on board with their current wage.
“We don’t want to be handcuffed and I think it’s absolutely unfair that we would have to be forced to lose money.”
Last edited by chemgear; 11-20-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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11-20-2019, 09:11 AM
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#2
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Franchise Player
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Sure hope this doesn't end up losing the xc skiing in the winter, only only part I care about!
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11-20-2019, 09:48 AM
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#3
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Franchise Player
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Provided their are minimum levels of service written into the contract along with other provisions (X Country skiing as Fuzz mentioned for example) this seems like a no brainer to me.
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11-20-2019, 10:12 AM
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#4
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In the Sin Bin
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Forcing minimum levels of service onto facilities that would otherwise be shut down seems unlikely to result in a good sale price for the city. Or many willing buyers.
That said, keeping Cross-country skiing lanes open seems like a no brainer, since the land would otherwise be generating no revenue in the winter.
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11-20-2019, 10:22 AM
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#5
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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I've seen job postings for golf course staff sometimes on Indeed and they were offering like $27+ an hour which is obviously insane.
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11-20-2019, 10:22 AM
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#6
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
Forcing minimum levels of service onto facilities that would otherwise be shut down seems unlikely to result in a good sale price for the city. Or many willing buyers.
That said, keeping Cross-country skiing lanes open seems like a no brainer, since the land would otherwise be generating no revenue in the winter.
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XC skiing is currently free, so it is no revenue currently. It is all done by volunteers:
https://foothillsnordic.ca/ski-confe...n-information/
I think the risk would be a private operator worried about liability, and potential damage to the course.
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11-20-2019, 10:27 AM
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#7
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In the Sin Bin
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Well, in that case, you'd probably end up having to pay a fee in the future.
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11-20-2019, 10:29 AM
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#8
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Franchise Player
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Ya, and I'm OK with that, I already donate to the ski club. As long as it is reasonable, I'm sure most people would be ok paying a little bit.
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11-20-2019, 11:31 AM
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#9
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resolute 14
Forcing minimum levels of service onto facilities that would otherwise be shut down seems unlikely to result in a good sale price for the city. Or many willing buyers.
That said, keeping Cross-country skiing lanes open seems like a no brainer, since the land would otherwise be generating no revenue in the winter.
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I'm not sure the City is considering the sale of the courses, just contracting out the operation of them? So basically the City hands over operation of the course, presumably with standards to uphold (fees, level of service, maintenance etc.) and the Operators would decide on whether it's worth bidding given their cost structure.
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11-20-2019, 11:42 AM
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#10
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First Line Centre
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Are these city workers in a union? If so, there could be a problem
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11-20-2019, 11:57 AM
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#11
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazypucker
Are these city workers in a union? If so, there could be a problem
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Other than these golf courses losing money year after year?
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11-20-2019, 12:27 PM
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#12
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Trouble is it's the same union as other city departments. So while some business units can absolutely justify paying $27.50 as a base labour rate, that's just nuts for cutting grass
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11-20-2019, 12:31 PM
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#13
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sector 7G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
Trouble is it's the same union as other city departments. So while some business units can absolutely justify paying $27.50 as a base labour rate, that's just nuts for cutting grass
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and on the very rare occasion raking a sand trap...
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11-20-2019, 12:37 PM
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#14
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SW Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazypucker
Are these city workers in a union? If so, there could be a problem
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This was first tabled in like 2014 I believe and the union has been fighting it. I think the new UCP budget really pushed things along though
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11-20-2019, 01:43 PM
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#15
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
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This should have been years ago. Really hope the city sticks to their guns and follows through on this.
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11-20-2019, 03:59 PM
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#16
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Income Tax Central
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btimbit
Trouble is it's the same union as other city departments. So while some business units can absolutely justify paying $27.50 as a base labour rate, that's just nuts for cutting grass
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What is the matter with you? What you're advocating is a race to the bottom! People who mow lawns for half the year deserve the right to a living wage!
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11-21-2019, 02:51 PM
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#17
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sector 7-G
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There's been talk about selling these courses for development, which I think would be a loss to the amenities that make a city what is is. Not all sports can be done at a splashy new "Y" or hockey rink.
I'd much rather them contract out operations to a private party and keep this land as golf course. (To say nothing of the existing development that has occured on the basis of this being a golf course)
Isn't this how TPC Fox Hollow operates, under a lease from the City?
Keeping XC trails open as part of this should be contractually simple. Course operator gets the course from April to October. City Parks will run a XC ski groomer from Jan-March. (though if the people that operate Fox Hollow take over, we can all rejoice at the ability to golf on +10 chinook days in Jan...)
Last edited by I-Hate-Hulse; 11-21-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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11-21-2019, 04:58 PM
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#18
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
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^ I don't think they can develop Richmond Green (which probably isn't part of this discussion) because there's a cistern under it. At least I heard something to that effect.
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11-21-2019, 05:03 PM
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#19
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Not a casual user
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: A simple man leading a complicated life....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazypucker
Are these city workers in a union? If so, there could be a problem
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Yes they are.
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11-21-2019, 05:06 PM
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#20
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazypucker
Are these city workers in a union? If so, there could be a problem
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If I had to guess, I would imagine alot is seasonal employment or positions
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