Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Who's gonna set up the plays on that second line?
You've got 3 triggermen playing together, and Ferland absolutely needs an elite playmaker to make him look like a top 6 forward. Monahan and Tkachuk are not that. Gaudreau had more assists last year than Monahan and Tkachuk combined.

I like the moves you made, and the players brought in, just need to tinker with the lines.

Monahan was second on the team in assists. His own playmaking skills are consistently underrated on this forum.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Tkachuk is an elite playmaker. Are we watching the same kid?

Tkachuk is a fantastic player, and definitely has the elite potential, but I'd say he's more of an all around player, where he can set up a play just as easily as he can finish a play. To me an elite playmaker is a guy who's constantly looking to set up a teammate, a guy who's point production clearly shows he works at setting up plays, not finishing plays.

Tkachuk had 24 goals, 25 assists last year. His first season he put up 35 assists, so he obviosuly has the playmaking ability, but I think he's better suited to finishing plays close to the net, like Monahan, especially on the powerplay.

Gaudreau had 24 goals, 60 assists.

Guys like Wheeler, Thornton, Datsyuk, who are consistently putting up twice as many assist than goals.

I'm just saying, a line of Tkachuk-Monahan-Ferland is very shot heavy, and Tkachuk shouldn't be forced to be the setup guy when he's nearly as good of a finisher as Monahan is already.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

No reason to rush any of them. One or two will probably be used as a trade chip at some point.

Valimaki and Andersson are the closest IMO. Don't think Kylington is ready. Fox is still in school. I think one or both of Valimaki/Andersson see significant time up next season.

I think part of the problem is that I feel like development needs to have natural progression - and I think that in the current NHL "No such thing as over-seasoning a prospect in the AHL" is actually false.

Guys can be set back in their development by spending too much time in that league & really I don't see very many d-men who become actual impact d-men in the NHL that spend a ton of time in the AHL anymore. At some point in order to learn how the be an NHLer, you need to actually be given time and patience to learn to play IN the NHL.

Look at Anaheim, Boston, & Nashville who do great at drafting and developing D.

Anaheim:
- Manson: 45 AHL Games
- Theodore: 98 AHL Games
- Montour: 118 AHL Games
- Lindholm: 44 AHL Games
- Vatanen: 70 AHL Games

Nashville:
- Ekholm: 59 AHL Games
- Josi: 74 AHL Games
- Ellis: 61 AHL Games

Boston:
- Carlo: 7 AHL Games
- Krug 63 AHL Games
- McAvoy: 4 AHL Games
- Grzelcyk: 84 AHL Games

Those teams all had good NHL level d-men, but they always made moves and made space to let those young guys come up to the NHL and get experience.

Plus some other notables that weren't first round picks, and didn't play on teams as stacked as the four above, and the number of AHL games they played:

Gostisberhere: 21 AHL Games
Parayko: 17 AHL Games
Slavin: 14 AHL Games
Severson: 5 AHL Games
Dunn: 72 AHL Games
Girard: 6 AHL Games
Pesce: 7 AHL Games
Edmundson: 100 AHL Games
Faulk: 43 AHL Games
Dermott: 87 AHL Games
Bowey: 113 AHL Games
N.Schmidt: 65 AHL Games

Guys that have NHL talent don't need to spend years in the AHL. Seems to be that really between 70-100 games is enough.

Even just on our own roster. Giordano spent 144 AHL games as an undrafted free agent, Brodie had 115 AHL Games, Kulak had 117 AHL Games.

At this point Andersson has 110 AHL Games, & Kylington has 170 AHL games. Any more AHL time for them and IMO you are holding back their development, time to let them sink or swim at the NHL level.

I don't think Kylington is any worse defensively than guys like Krug, Gostisbehere, or Vatanen were at 21/22 but their teams let them grow and be sheltered to develop on the 3rd pairing in the NHL. This organization has always been hesitant to let their young guys figure it out in the NHL, unless they were elite first line talent or early draft picks (Even Gaudreau almost got sent down after he had a rough 5 games to start his career).

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Monahan was second on the team in assists. His own playmaking skills are consistently underrated on this forum.

How many of those assists were rebounds?
I'm not trying to discredit Tkachuk or Monahan as great hockey players, but Monahan is clearly a guy you want shooting the puck, not spending his time setting up plays. Which is why the Johnny-Money combo is so perfect together.

Tkachuk-Tavares would be just as incredible.

Give both another shooter, and you have two deadly lines.

Johnny-Money-Gallagher
Tkachuk-Tavares-Ferland

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Tkachuk’s lack of assists last season is directly related to Backlund and Frolik’s poor finishing last year. Put Tkachuk with Monahan or Tavares and his assists will skyrocket. He was a 30g 77a guy in junior playing with two skilled guys. Hard to read into his production on our checking line last year. He was very much touted for his playmaking in his draft year. His puck protection and passing are first rate. I see him as an all around player yes, because he’s an elite playmaker, finisher and grinder.

[Harry Lime]

Even quite a few posters in this forum believe that any AHL graduation will result in disaster. It's not just the Flames, it's something in the water in Calgary.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

At this point Andersson has 110 AHL Games, & Kylington has 170 AHL games. Any more AHL time for them and IMO you are holding back their development, time to let them sink or swim at the NHL level.

I don't think Kylington is any worse defensively than guys like Krug, Gostisbehere, or Vatanen were at 21 but their teams let them grow and be sheltered to develop on the 3rd pairing in the NHL. This organization has always been hesitant to let their young guys figure it out in the NHL, unless they were elite first line talent or early draft picks (Even Gaudreau almost got sent down after he had a rough 5 games to start his career).

Well Kylington is somewhat unique in that he went to the AHL at 18 years old. Most of the players you reference started playing in the AHL at age 20 because CHL players cannot go there earlier than that. So definitely an apples to oranges comparison there if you are using games played.

I’d say the organization based on the way they’ve used Kylington and Andersson at the AHL and NHL level see Andersson as being more NHL ready. I’ve heard people say Andersson dominates the AHL. Haven’t heard that yet of Kylington. I think he has another step forward to take.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well Kylington is somewhat unique in that he went to the AHL at 18 years old. Most of the players you reference started playing in the AHL at age 20 because CHL players cannot go there earlier than that. So definitely an apples to oranges comparison there if you are using games played.

I’d say the organization based on the way they’ve used Kylington and Andersson at the AHL and NHL level see Andersson as being more NHL ready. I’ve heard people say Andersson dominates the AHL. Haven’t heard that yet of Kylington. I think he has another step forward to take.

Yeah Kylington is a weird case - most of the other guys mentioned started in the NHL at 21/22. And Kylington will only turn 21 in May.

But at 16 people talked about this kid in the same way they talk about Rasmus Dahlen now, and at 18 he was still talked about in the same group as Hanifin, Werenski, & Provorov. The skill is there, he just needed to mature.

So even with the young start I think that another 30-40 games max in the AHL for him before it becomes too much. he's already matured as much as he's going to mature in that league. After 200 games in that league there is nothing else the AHL is going to teach him about being an NHLer.

Valimaki is going to be an interesting case too...I doubt he thinks he will need much AHL time either. He played with Brandon Carlo in Tri-City and was pretty much his equal as a 17 year old, with Carlo in his draft + 1 year. Carlo went right to the NHL the next year. Also he is playing with Bean now, and my bet is Bean starts the year in Carolina. Does he really need to spend any more than 30-40 games in the AHL either...doubtful.

Either way an interesting off-season, and next season on the Flames back end and goes back to my original point. Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic, Stone, Kulak, Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington....something feels like it will have to give and it will be tough because you can't have 2+ rookies on your backend all at once without growing pains. They needed to work these guys in better this past year so they had at least a little more NHL experience.

[Harry Lime]

The floor on Kulak is at the NHL level, so I think that pairing him with Andersson on the third pairing wouldn't be that error laden.

Kyllington and Hamonic could actually be an interesting pairing. Hamonic is strong enough defensively to carry it, but I agree that there would be risk there.

A risk that I would be willing to take. You don't get to be Nashville or Anaheim by being scared to play your high end young players.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

The floor on Kulak is at the NHL level, so I think that pairing him with Andersson on the third pairing wouldn't be that error laden.

Kyllington and Hamonic could actually be an interesting pairing. Hamonic is strong enough defensively to carry it, but I agree that there would be risk there.

A risk that I would be willing to take. You don't get to be Nashville or Anaheim by being scared to play your high end young players.

Hamonic suffered all year by playing alongside a fast, free wheeling defensively irresponsible Brodie. I'd rather the team not continue to handicap him by putting a similar partner (with even less NHL experience) with him again next year.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Even quite a few posters in this forum believe that any AHL graduation will result in disaster. It's not just the Flames, it's something in the water in Calgary.

There's a league filled with players who "just got a chance" and took it and ran with it to heights that have surprised everyone.

Yet here we sit all year long having debates about "what has he done to earn his chance".

For pity's sake, we iced a team last year that played Troy Brouwer for 76 games - he did nothing - nothing, for 76 friggin' games. Matt Stajan played 68 games, and did nothing. Matt Bartkowski, Chris Stewart, Tanner Glass...call it a lack of depth or whatever, but we had better options at the NHL and AHL level to play those minutes. It was pure idiocy that the players mentioned above were played as much as they were.

"Who else could they play"

Eatbread, Foo, Kylington, Andersson, Wotherspoon...if you trust your head coach, you trust them to help young kids along at the NHL level. I'm hoping we see a lot more youth and speed injected into the line-up under Peters.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Either way an interesting off-season, and next season on the Flames back end and goes back to my original point. Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie, Hamonic, Stone, Kulak, Andersson, Valimaki, Kylington....something feels like it will have to give and it will be tough because you can't have 2+ rookies on your backend all at once without growing pains. They needed to work these guys in better this past year so they had at least a little more NHL experience.

Agreed. Training camp this year will be extremely competitive for our defenseman. Kylington, Andersson and to a lesser extent Valimaki should all be pushing real hard for a full time spot.
With that said, I always felt the Stone signing was a signal that management implied a longer development time for our D prospects. When his contract is up in 2 years, Valimaki will be 21, Kylington 22 and Andersson 23. By that time, at least one of those players should have surpassed Stone.
But in the mean time, the glut of NHL level defenseman we have means that there will be missed NHL playing time for a number of our prospects, even if they deserve to be called up.

Gio - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone

Unless injured or traded, it'll be hard for our prospects to supplant any of those guys.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

There's a league filled with players who "just got a chance" and took it and ran with it to heights that have surprised everyone.

Yet here we sit all year long having debates about "what has he done to earn his chance".

For pity's sake, we iced a team last year that played Troy Brouwer for 76 games - he did nothing - nothing, for 76 friggin' games. Matt Stajan played 68 games, and did nothing. Matt Bartkowski, Chris Stewart, Tanner Glass...call it a lack of depth or whatever, but we had better options at the NHL and AHL level to play those minutes. It was pure idiocy that the players mentioned above were played as much as they are/at all.

"Who else could they play"

Eatbread, Foo, Kylington, Andersson, Wotherspoon...if you trust your head coach, you trust them to help young kids along at the NHL level. I'm hoping we see a lot more youth and speed injected into the line-up under Peters.

Hell the Vegas team of misfit toys is showing what a bunch of guys who were deemed "Surplus" can do when trusted with bigger roles and responsibilities.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hell the Vegas team of misfit toys is showing what a bunch of guys who were deemed "Surplus" can do when trusted with bigger roles and responsibilities.

I think that's actually quite a different scenario. Most of their team actually are established veterans. I think the dynamics are much different than giving a young guy a chance.
Certainly some guys have stepped up with the opportunity, but these largely are not unproven rookies.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Hamonic suffered all year by playing alongside a fast, free wheeling defensively irresponsible Brodie. I'd rather the team not continue to handicap him by putting a similar partner (with even less NHL experience) with him again next year.

I think Hamonic is the type of defenseman that needs to make his partner better by being strong in the defensive zone and we shouldn’t be as worried about handicapping him with who he plays with.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think Hamonic is the type of defenseman that needs to make his partner better by being strong in the defensive zone and we shouldn’t be as worried about handicapping him with who he plays with.

Maybe he can work with a Kylington or Valimaki but he sure couldn't do it with Brodie (not his fault, but it was a struggle all year) and I'd rather he be given every chance at a bounce back season with someone more his style and thats either Gio or Kulak.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think that's actually quite a different scenario. Most of their team actually are established veterans. I think the dynamics are much different than giving a young guy a chance.
Certainly some guys have stepped up with the opportunity, but these largely are not unproven rookies.

Yeah my point was more just because somebody hasn't yet proven they can do something, doesn't mean they can't.

Sometimes just the opportunity is needed to really let them blossom. That is where I think the Flames have struggled, not patient enough to really see if a guy can sink or swim at the NHL level, always deferring to the veterans that a more of a "sure thing".

As far as Hamonic is concerned Valimaki feels like his partner to me that would work long term - can move the puck but is still stable in his own end.

Giordano - Hamilton
Valimaki - Hamonic
Brodie - Andersson
Kulak

I feel like those pairings would work - Kulak can come in if Valikmaki or Andersson struggle. If it's Andersson Brodie moves to the right.

[Royle9]

I'm going to assume that one of Brodie or Hamilton is used in a trade to upgrade our scoring depth. They are the 2 most tradable assets with Hamilton being the biggest chip we that's been "rumored" to be potentially available: (not that I agree with it)

Roster today:
Giordano - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson
Valimaki - Kylington

Next Season: (locks bolded)

Giordano - Hamilton or Brodie
Valimaki - Hamonic
Kulak/Kylington - Andersson

I think this is the year we give our young guys a shot, however the flames RARELY if ever give more than 1 a good look out of camp so I could see the flames looking at some depth "veterans" sadly enough I just hope its not Grossman 2.0

I'd like to see Valimaki/Kylington/Andersson make the team preferably, I think they all are worth a long look with the latter having had enough time in the AHL to now see what we really have. Rasmus is definitely ready, Kylington reminds me of Brodie in a way and by all accounts Valimaki has been nothing but rave reviews in Junior with most saying hes ready for the big step.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Maybe he can work with a Kylington or Valimaki but he sure couldn't do it with Brodie (not his fault, but it was a struggle all year) and I'd rather he be given every chance at a bounce back season with someone more his style and thats either Gio or Kulak.

I think that if Brodie is staying, he should be back playing on the right side. Guy struggles all year, didn't look at all comfortable. GG should of at least had a look at it. I hope peters is willing to have a look. If it screws up the slotting a bit, so what? I mean, aside from the top pairing, what was so awesome about the D last year that we should be worried about messing up? A confident Brodie is worth a hell of a lot more to this team then Stone, in my opinion.

Also, If stone is on the team come regular season, can we see him on PP2 with another D? Hes got a cannon of a shot, and if he puts it on goal, its going to mess up the goalies rebound control. Ill take junk goals in the crease any day.

And yes, i am suggesting 3 forwards and 2 Defensemen on the PP. If only to take away a spot that could otherwise be filled by Brouwer.

[pepper24]

Coach addresses some of their issues but still need to address lack of secondary scoring. Now up to Trevliving to address that via UFA or trade.

Add winger to top line. Buyout Brouwer. Move Frolik to 3rd line. Ideally, Jankowski improves moving Backlund to shutdown 3rd line center with Frolik. Mangi/Dube/Foo play on 3rd line. Andersson is full time player. Trade Stone (forward or pick). Move on from Bennett (add on in trade or picks).

Jonny - Mony - UFA/Trade
Tkachuk - Janko - Ferland
Frolik - Backlund - Mangi/Dube/Foo
Hathaway/Lomberg - Lazar/Shore - Klimchuk/3rd liner above

In waiting: ouch, Gawdin is intriguing, 3rd liners above, address with Stone/Bennett trades

Gio - Hamilton
Brodie - Hamonic
Kulak - Andersson

In waiting: Valimaki, Kylington, Fox

Smith - Rittich

In waiting: Parsons, not sold on Gillies