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Old 10-26-2020, 06:48 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Read things over again.

For one, as pointed out, this is about his lack of remorse, lack of apology, and his reported conduct at 18 when confronting the issue. It is not simply about what he did at 14. If he did what he did, and showed that growth instead of the opposite, this is a different conversation despite what he did being no less heinous. Getting on YOUR high horse and pretending everyone is just attacking his actions in isolation is pretty mindless.
If he was a reoffender you might have a point. But there's nothing in the article that says he's continued the behavior that got him into juvenile hall. In fact, there's accounts of the opposite. But we can't claim to know what is in this young man's heart. Actions speak louder than words.

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How many people do you know today who went to juvie for assault and were good people by 18? Honest number. And based on that, how many people here do you think did so?
We're not all as lucky as you PepsiFree. But I can attest that of those I know who went through juvenile hall, some of things far worse than what this young man did, that a vast majority of them are productive adults today.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #102
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Kids definitely can be redeemed. I've seen some terrible kids turn into great adults.

Torturing a disabled kid is pretty damn awful. It doesn't sound like Miller has done a ton of deep reflection on the impact his actions had on that boy. Now, he is progressing in a sport that has a pretty troubled history of racism and bullying - Miller has been involved in both. His story could be one of redemption or one of a kid who's career flamed out because of immaturity and entitlement. It really could go either way but the ultimate author of his fate is Miller himself.

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Old 10-26-2020, 06:51 PM   #103
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Who died and made you arbiter of what careers are appropriate for juvenile offenders?
He is Judge Jiri.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:54 PM   #104
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Kids definitely can be redeemed. I've seen some terrible kids turn into great adults.

Torturing a disabled kid is pretty damn awful. It doesn't sound like Miller has done a ton of deep reflection on the impact his actions had on that boy. Now, he is progressing in a sport that has a pretty troubled history of racism and bullying - Miller has been involved in both. His story could be one of redemption or one of a kid who's career flamed out because of immaturity and entitlement. It really could go either way.

Too often people don't realize how much bullying hurts the individual. The hurt especially for a child sometimes cuts very deep! A sincere apology or acknowledgment can go a long ways!
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:57 PM   #105
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Too often people don't realize how much bullying hurts the individual. The hurt especially for a child sometimes cuts very deep! A sincere apology or acknowledgment can go a long ways!
I was bullied pretty heavily as a kid. I moved a lot and changed schools regularly plus I was a relatively small, sensitive kid. To this day, I remember when a kid who I didn't know spit directly in my face.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:12 PM   #106
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Thanks for insulting my parental skills based on a post.

I have a daughter with down syndrome. She was bullied growing up. When I witnessed it my first instinct was violence. But I didn't go with my first instinct. My second instinct was to take the bully aside and have a private conversation with them. I explained to them that while my daughter didn't act like the other kids, she still felt the same when bullied. I'd then ask the bully what they would think if my daughter was their sister and they saw someone else bullying them. Without fail they'd say they wouldn't like it. Then I'd tell them I don't like it. And neither does she. Then I'd ask if it will stop. Without fail, they'd say yes. Even if they weren't sure if they meant it. Then I'd tell them I was going to hold them to it. And they would. Even the kids I was certain would reoffend. At least with my daughter, they didn't.
And what if they did? For seven long years of mental and physical bullying even when you asked them to stop, to the point where they had to go to court for it? Would that still be “we all do stupid things at that age”?

If so, you’re a stronger person than me, good on you. But until he can actually show he’s changed, and that includes apologising in person like the grown individual some claim him to be, he deserves to live with it hanging over him.

Nobody is stopping him from forgiveness and moving on from this. He is. That’s it.
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:24 PM   #107
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Not sure where this discussion is at but I personally hope this kid gets the piss beat out of him at every stage. If he makes the show hopefully he debuts against Vegas and gets to meet Ryan reaves up close and personal
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:27 PM   #108
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I was bullied pretty heavily as a kid. I moved a lot and changed schools regularly plus I was a relatively small, sensitive kid. To this day, I remember when a kid who I didn't know spit directly in my face.

I hear you, I am much older and still can be quite sensitive!! I had meningitis when I was 2 and lost my ability to walk and talk and had to learn all over again. Because I was behind I got picked on a lot. As I got older, I traveled to schools, 2 to 3 times a day for about 3 years (all grade levels) educating people about disabilities; What we are like, what kinds of things we like and that we want to be included...etc. The overall response from, educators, teachers, students was very positive. Later on I was hired to do public speaking for both Provincial and Federal projects in support of access and disability awareness.

I have come to learn that education is important, it is the process that allows us to create positive change. Sadly even though I have spoken up, I still feel the acute effects of bullying when I was a young kid!

Hopefully the young "Miller" will get guidance through the Coyotes so he can have a strong impact for such an important cause!
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Old 10-26-2020, 07:33 PM   #109
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The Yotes are a joke organisation. I used to say they should be moved but that feels too light. Just fold the team already.
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Old 10-26-2020, 08:14 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
And what if they did? For seven long years of mental and physical bullying even when you asked them to stop, to the point where they had to go to court for it? Would that still be “we all do stupid things at that age”?

If so, you’re a stronger person than me, good on you. But until he can actually show he’s changed, and that includes apologising in person like the grown individual some claim him to be, he deserves to live with it hanging over him.

Nobody is stopping him from forgiveness and moving on from this. He is. That’s it.
Jesus man you don't get to decide who is a good person and who isn't based on one incident.

I have many, MANY friends that did stupid #### and ended up in juvenile detention that all turned out to be great people and family men. But one thing I know is I am extremely glad I never had a friend or acquaintance like you.

How can you realistically comment on the personality of a person from a story that only shows one side. Yes the kid got in trouble and seems to have not let them reoccur. He said he wrote an apology and the other family said it didn't receive it, who is right. Maybe with your great mind reading and ruling you could tell us the truth.
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Old 10-26-2020, 08:32 PM   #111
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I like how instead of compassion for the victim the focus is on vengeance against the bully with a complete disregard for what has occurred during the last 4 years.

I know how to get rid of bullies, let’s bully them!
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:14 PM   #112
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"Mitchell sent a letter to every NHL team acknowledging what happened and apologizing for his behavior. Mitchell made a huge mistake, but we are providing him with a second chance to prove himself. We hope that he uses his platform moving forward to raise awareness about bullying and to discourage this type of behavior.” - Bill Armstrong

"I have generally found that a lot of these guys have learned from their mistakes. It kind of crystallizes for them that what they love and care about can be taken away from them because of their own actions," - Peters

"Here's a kid who made a mistake when he was 14 years old. He's grown from it, he's learned from it, he's changed. He's become a responsible young man." - Coach Noreen
The problem isn't that the Coyotes picked him under the rationale that everyone deserves second chances and can learn from their mistakes.

The problem is that those in power trivialize Mitchell's actions, ignore the impact on the victim and really don't care what Mitchell has learned from it, if anything.

- Coach Noreen says, "Here's a kid who made a mistake", implying that he made one single mistake. Rather than acknowledging that it was racist bullying that lasted years.

- ESPN Analyst Peters refers to the lesson Mitchell learned from his mistakes as "what they love and care about can be taken away from them because of their own actions." That's what you learn - don't be a racist bully because you can get into trouble? That's the lesson here?

- GM Armstrong - refers to it a single "huge mistake" rather than a series of on-going behavior that lasted years.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:14 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger View Post
I like how instead of compassion for the victim the focus is on vengeance against the bully with a complete disregard for what has occurred during the last 4 years.

I know how to get rid of bullies, let’s bully them!
I think everyone deserves a second chance or even a third and fourth chance. Especially when it comes to kids and stupid behaviour.

Having said that, I’d love this kid to make the NHL and meet up with Evander Kane or Wayne Simmonds in a corner.

He’s not going to have an easy career. He will get challenged a lot once he gets to a league that allows fighting.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:21 PM   #114
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I know how to get rid of bullies, let’s bully them!
I’m reminded of the paradox of tolerance.

Quote:
In order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.
I could paraphrase this to be in order to maintain a bully free society, the society must bully the bullies.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:42 PM   #115
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https://www.si.com/hockey/news/what-...itchell-miller

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The Miller story ticks off so many sickening boxes when it comes to what constitutes abuse. And it also raises a lot of uncomfortable questions, such as how long should someone who did something very bad, something he should have known was heinous, be made to pay for his sins? Does he deserve to be banished and wear a scarlet letter for life? Should he be given an opportunity to prove that he has truly changed? After paying his debt to society, does he deserve a chance at an NHL career? And you can’t even really posit the argument that we all did things we regretted when we were young and stupid. Because there are not very many people who would not have realized even at that young age that doing what Miller was convicted of doing was fundamentally wrong.
(It's also important to note that if Miller had been a Canadian, no media in Canada would have been legally permitted to even publish the details of his crime or that he had been convicted because of the Young Offenders' Act. Nor would he have been saddled with a criminal record.)
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:48 PM   #116
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I'm only here to squeeze a cheap endorphin rush out of my righteous indignation.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:02 PM   #117
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That picture of Mitchell Miller from the article seems very apropos if you know anything of Ralph Englestad's past.
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Old 10-26-2020, 11:21 PM   #118
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That picture of Mitchell Miller from the article seems very apropos if you know anything of Ralph Englestad's past.
Do tell? I don’t k ow of Ralph England, or his past.
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Old 10-26-2020, 11:30 PM   #119
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Ya know, on the day of Joey Moss' passing, this kids sour past rings a bit louder.
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Old 10-27-2020, 12:00 AM   #120
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If he was a reoffender you might have a point. But there's nothing in the article that says he's continued the behavior that got him into juvenile hall. In fact, there's accounts of the opposite. But we can't claim to know what is in this young man's heart. Actions speak louder than words..
The victim's mother says that his bullying had been going on since Grade 2. We're talking about a near decade. How is that not continued behaviour?

When he was caught and in trouble, again the victim's mother pointed out how he would pass their home because he couldn't go to school, seeing this as a form of intimidation.

And the magistrate chastised the guy for his terrible attitude during the case. Keeping in mind that the other accused was having heaps of praise lavished over him for the way he responded.

Plus the victim denies receiving the apology.

Look, I get redemption, I think it would be good if Mitchell did end up redeeming himself and learning and growing and I think we should probably give him that ability. But there's nothing to indicate that he has redeemed himself or that this was a single stupid mistake, unlike his accomplice. Your posts are pretty baseless.
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