[Trade] Flames acquire goalie Daniel Vladar from Bruins for 2022 3rd

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

From what I read after the fact, Boston had targeted Linus Ullmark as the veteran presence they wanted to bring in. Makes sense. Pair an upcoming youngster with a still developing but experienced netminder like Ullmark. Vladar was odd man out.

Hopefully it works out to our benefit.

[shutout]

This is only a bad deal if the Flames now go out and add a veteran goalie and try to push Vladar to the minors and lose him on waivers.
If they give him a legitimate chance to be the back up and actually play some games instead of sitting on the bench for two months in between appearances than this is a good pick with a high upside based on Vladar's history.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Both views are right....and wrong. Using late round picks isn't a problem for trades but you should try to draft players that will eventually play that you can then trade for more picks. They need to use the picks to get guys like this because they don't have prospects to step into those roles because they've used their picks.

Trading picks is fine if it's for the right players at the right times. You do need to eventually recoup picks or your prosprct pool will be empty. If you're a contender or really close it's a good idea to trade picks. If you're a bubble team you get higher picks and you should keep the picks and hope you draft good players that help you in the future.

This team is a non playoff team trading picks in hopes of becoming a playoff team. Spinning their wheels unless something changes.

There's also the inherent problem in trading picks for players: in the long term you're going to get players that are as good as the pick is worth on average, while half the teams in the league will inevitably draft better than average.

If you have a below average team to begin with, it's easy to improve to an average team by trading picks, but every draft pick you don't make will also make it that much more likely that you will never catch up to teams that drafted better than average or were better to begin with.

And that's exactly where we are now: A below average team making trades to become an average team, so we can squeeze into the playoffs and then hope Darryl Sutter is magic.

(I don't mind this particular trade though.)

[Doc Hudson]

Seems like a Kipper-like situation... one can hope.

Originally Posted by Goriders

Hopefully it works out to our benefit.

[t0rrent98]

Vladar is backing up markstrom from what tre said post FA. I imagine he will only see 10-15 games through.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by t0rrent98

Vladar is backing up markstrom from what tre said post FA. I imagine he will only see 10-15 games through.

All depends how he plays. If he comes in and is lights out he will get more leash and more starts.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by t0rrent98

Vladar is backing up markstrom from what tre said post FA. I imagine he will only see 10-15 games through.

IF Markstrom stays healthy

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by t0rrent98

Vladar is backing up markstrom from what tre said post FA. I imagine he will only see 10-15 games through.

Again, I seriously doubt that Markstrom will play in +65 games this year. Devan Dubnyk was the only goalie to play more than 65 games in the last full season, and Markstom has never started more than 60. The current trend in the NHL is for starting goalies to be limited to around 70% of the season-starts.

Vlader/Werner should see about 20–30 starts.

[Reggie Dunlop]

My question is does Vladar have the mental makeup to stay focussed despite sporadic backup duty? That was Rittich's achilles heel.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

My question is does Vladar have the mental makeup to stay focussed despite sporadic backup duty? That was Rittich's achilles heel.

It was, but when he started his NHL career it wasn't an issue at all:

25 Nov, 2017 W — 0.923SP, 2GA
7 Dec, 2017 W — 0.946SP, 2GA
17 Dec, 2017 W — 0.941SP, 1GA
12 Jan, 2018 W —0.953SP, 2GA
25 Jan, 2018 SOL — 0.919SP, 3GA
8 Feb, 2018 W — 0.938SP, 2GA
13 Feb, 2018 L — 0.897SP, 4GA
15 Feb, 2018 W — 0.906SP, 3GA
17 Feb, 2018 L — 0.733SP, 4GA
19 Feb, 2018 OTL — 0.938SP, 2GA
21 Feb, 2018 L — 0.733SP, 7GA
28 Feb, 2018 L — 0.879SP, 4GA
7 Mar, 2018 W — 0.962SP, 1GA
9 Mar, 2018 W — 0.967SP, 1GA
24 Mar, 2018 L — 0.848SP, 5GA

Rittich was actually really good in very sporadic usage for the first part of the year, but then really faltered when he had to play consecutive starts in place of an injured Mike Smith. The script really flipped for him in his subsequent seasons, where he looked much better with lots of regular work than he did when he had weeks between starts.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Some good quotes from Boston's Don Sweeney in this article

https://www.masslive.com/bruins/2021...dar-deals.html

“As you can see, we gave Daniel an opportunity to go to Calgary and establish some stuff there,” Sweeney said. “They were excited to have him. It was a little bit of a musical chairs shuffle.”

Sounds like they were reluctant to give him up (let alone for nothing) so they made the best of a tight situation.

[FlamingHomer]

I hope our goalie coach team is on a short leash after all the failures they've produced. Even an aging Mike Smith got better after he left.
This guy has a pretty good resume and should be able to handle the NHL level so if he crashes and burns like so many goalies that have gone through here, someone better notice this trend and fix it. There has to be better options out there.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This “extra pick” logic is so flawed. Hopefully our GM doesn’t look at his draft picks and categorize them that way.

I don’t mind either trade in isolation, unfortunately part of a pattern that has historically failed to work. Looking at off-season deals, what is Treliving’s pick deficit in trades? The number must be frightening.

Team fails during season, he trades pending UFA’s for picks. Uses those picks and then some in trades to fill the roster with players. Rinse, repeat. If team is in contention burn through more picks to trade for middle and bottom roster rentals. Fill in gaps with UFAs to make sure no cap flexibility.

Sigh.

At least we have HOF calibre coach.

I agree a pick is a pick is a pick. Doesn't matter how it's obtained ... goes to the matrix and has value.

Dom's GSVA model has a third round pick worth 0.76 wins. They obtained 0.76 wins for Rittich, and moved it for Vlader.

Overall Treliving is +2.34 wins since the summer of 2018 (last three years). That's worth a late first round pick in overall draft capital.

Bled picks like crazy in the previous three years though, which is certainly part of the issue right now. Bet on the core. Was wrong.

So he isn't bleeding picks any more if you like a three year window.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I agree a pick is a pick is a pick. Doesn't matter how it's obtained ... goes to the matrix and has value.

Dom's GSVA model has a third round pick worth 0.76 wins. They obtained 0.76 wins for Rittich, and moved it for Vlader.

Overall Treliving is +2.34 wins since the summer of 2018 (last three years). That's worth a late first round pick in overall draft capital.

Bled picks like crazy in the previous three years though, which is certainly part of the issue right now. Bet on the core. Was wrong.

So he isn't bleeding picks any more if you like a three year window.

Oh and that doesn't assign any value to prospects acquired or moved.

So no value for Vlader or Heineman in recent transactions.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Literally a few days ago, I was reading articles talking about the future of Boston's goaltending and Swayman and Vladar were listed as the netminders of the future. Vladar is highly thought of in Boston and if it wasn't for waiver eligibility I'm sure he'd still be a Bruin.
Tre made a smart move here. I have no issue with moving a 3rd to snag this kid. I think he can contribute on Calgary right away if they need him to.

It was a shrewd move to grab him. Great work by scouting and management to identify the Bruins vulnerability.

But in a season that may well have a compressed schedule, when even on a team with a workhorse like Markstrom the backup is going to get the call at least 20 times, it’s more than a little risky to pencil in a guy with 5 games of NHL experience (and an .866 save % in those games) for the job.

[shotinthebacklund]

Makes complete sense to me. Using the third this year for a guy that has shown good development and is more NHL ready then our younger prospects. If Parsons developed as hoped this would not be needed but goalies are a game of snakes and ladders where sometimes the ladders are also snakes... I like this much more then using the third next year to select a goalie anyway.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It was a shrewd move to grab him. Great work by scouting and management to identify the Bruins vulnerability.

But in a season that may well have a compressed schedule, when even on a team with a workhorse like Markstrom the backup is going to get the call at least 20 times, it’s more than a little risky to pencil in a guy with 5 games of NHL experience (and an .866 save % in those games) for the job.

Here is his game log from last year:

16 Mar @ Pittsburgh: 35 shots, 1GA, 0.971SP
27 Mar v Buffalo: 27 shots, 2GA, 0.926SP
1 Apr v Pittsburgh: 22 shots, 3GA, 0.864SP
5 Apr v Philadelphia: 32 shots, 3GA, 0.906SP
11 Apr v Washington: 33 shots, 8GA, 0.758SP

[Strange Brew]

IMO there are valid reasons to like or dislike this move.

A ready for the NHL goalie prospect, at league minimum, with more team control is a win. Have to like that. Even more if you might be trading a goalie prospect soon in a deal for an elite C.

On the negative side, there were a lot of goalie options that wouldn't have cost a draft pick. And with Boston committed to other goalies and him being waiver eligible, they were over a barrel. Were you bidding against yourself?

Here's hoping his play shows he was worth all the Flames gave up and then some.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I agree a pick is a pick is a pick. Doesn't matter how it's obtained ... goes to the matrix and has value.

Dom's GSVA model has a third round pick worth 0.76 wins. They obtained 0.76 wins for Rittich, and moved it for Vlader.

Overall Treliving is +2.34 wins since the summer of 2018 (last three years). That's worth a late first round pick in overall draft capital.

Bled picks like crazy in the previous three years though, which is certainly part of the issue right now. Bet on the core. Was wrong.

So he isn't bleeding picks any more if you like a three year window.

I'd argue Treliving's "approach" hasn't changed. It is to trade away picks for players, running a deficit. He is able to recoup some of these when team fails and he's a seller. But the latter is not by design really. If this was a team making the playoffs every year, we'd have a total pick deficit.

In the off season, when all things are equal, Treliving almost never accumulates picks. He has zero depth from which to trade.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I'd argue Treliving's "approach" hasn't changed. It is to trade away picks for players, running a deficit. He is able to recoup some of these when team fails and he's a seller. But the latter is not by design really. If this was a team making the playoffs every year, we'd have a total pick deficit.

In the off season, when all things are equal, Treliving almost never accumulates picks. He has zero depth from which to trade.

Aren't you describing every GM?

You expend picks when you are competing, and acquire picks when you are falling.

The issue is the judgement of when you should go all in, and as I've said about 2 dozen times, he was wrong to bet on Gaudreau and Monahan as 2/3 of a top line.

A fairly strong majority of people on this site seemed to feel the same way at the time however.