Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't think you're taking into consideration the small market Canadian team tax. 8 years $60M feels more accurate. 8@$7.5M.

You might be right but Johnny also had a bigger contract than landeskog already and is a year older than landeskog is now when he becomes a free agent.

$50 mil might be low but I think $60 might be high too. For any other team to give $60 mil would be 7 years and $8.5. The 8th year would mean trading assets to get him now

Also I’m sure American citizens who get heavy bonuses from Canadian teams get a tax break. Might need to go that route similar to Mathews on his last deal

That 8th year is our advantage. I still think $50 mil will be close but I don’t think Brad has the balls to do 8 years for Johnny either.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by mile

I don't think this is true.



Let's say Monahan (who has the lowest cap hit out of him, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau) is moved along with Valimaki, a prospect, and a pick for Eichel

Dube, Mackey, Kylington, Zadorov and depth guy like Stone are all signed to reasonable deals.



Gaudreau (6.75) - Eichel (10) - Mangiapane (2.425)
Tkachuk (7) - Lindholm (4.85) - Coleman (4.9)
Dube (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Pitlick (1.75)
Lucic (5.25) - Ruzicka (801k) - Lewis (800k)
Ritchie (900k)

Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Zadorov (4) - Tanev (4.5)
Mackey (1) - Kylington (850k)
Stone (800k)

Markstrom (6)
Vladar (750k)

Total: 80.176m

A little more than 1.3 million in cap space if I did the math correctly.
If Zadorov signs for 500k higher, there's still a little breathing room.

Can't imagine Tre is doing much right now other than working on the Gaudreau extension and checking in on the trade market. RFA deals can be done after that.

I agree that works, but if you are Buffalo starting over with your rebuild, why do you want Monahan. Yes, he'll score you 30 goals when healthy but he isn't part of a rebuild.
Out of Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, and Monahan, Monahan has the lowest value by a landslide. The other GM's are not idiots, they see what we see plus a whole lot more without our home town bias.
Short of giving up a tonne of firsts, and all multiple prospects that would empty the cupboards, one of these has to be included. Monahan makes the most sense for the Flames but the least for Buffalo.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Sabres can always flip Monahan.

The Flames need to dump some salary if they acquire Eichel.

[Wood]

Buffalo is looking for only futures in return, especially if what OutOfTheCube posted is true about the team possibly being up for sale

No reason Calgary can't match their demand of 4 assets by offering something along the lines of Valimaki, Zary, 2022 1st and 2023 1st

If Buffalo isn't taking cap back, there are teams that would be interested in either Monahan or Tkachuk in a seperate deal. Trade Monahan to Ottawa for picks/prospects, or Tkachuk to nearly any team

[BEANZ]

Originally Posted by stemit14

Doesn’t hate to lose? I doubt that. Before Calgary Gaudreau has done nothing but win at every level. The only players that are willing to go to the sabres right now are guys who need a chance to play cause they are not getting opportunities elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Being on winning teams has zero to do with a players desire to win. I would say things like nutrition, willingness to back check or block shots and ability to elevate ones game when it matters most are far better indicators. See Mr Point as a perfect example: no one outworks this guy, he does all of the little things and is a fantastic team mate.

Johnny is a good player but is a huge part of the reason this team is soft and has a well discussed country club attitude.

[GreenLantern2814]

Tkachuk is the better flip for the Sabres, so just give them Tkachuk.

Like, do we really wanna watch Matthew lumber around the ice for another 18 months before we trade him for a late 1st and garbage, or do we want to leverage him into a #1C?

Cuz he ain’t retiring here.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by BEANZ

Would people consider trading Johnny as part of the Eichel package?

Personally, I think this might make the most sense. Johnny is not a Sutter type and it would significantly lower the balance of the package needed.

Johnny and a prospect or two for Eichel is easier to pallet than giving up 1st in what is going to be a draft to remember.

I think Johnny wasn't ready for Sutter hockey for sure.

But he adjusted, by probably reigning in some of the risk taking and then getting better suited linemates.

Hard to pinpoint obviously.

But for fun ...

CF%
Ward 50%
Sutter (1st 15) 48%
Sutter (Last 15) 57%

xGF%
Ward 54%
Sutter (1st 15) 42%
Sutter (Last 15) 61%

SCF%
Ward 50%
Sutter (1st 15) 46%
Sutter (Last 15) 55%

HDCF%
Ward 51%
Sutter (1st 15) 43%
Sutter (Last 15) 61%

I know when I coach kids hockey I don't like forwards to turn the puck over at either blueline; that's pretty much logical hockey 101.

Some when hearing that (kids and parents) snap and suggest you're dummying down the sport or making kids into robots. But no way ... you're just asking the kid with the puck to make an assessment. If he thinks he can beat a guy 90% of the time take the chances. If it's closer to 20% given the situation dump it in.

You could see Gaudreau change his assessment level tremendously as the season wore on.

[shutout]

I think that Gaudreau will want to play for the Flyers at some point in his career.
And will want to do so when he still has some value to them.
I think that he will probably max out at a five year deal.
Brings him to an age where he can still sign a one or two year deal that won't be tough on the Flyers but will allow him to play out a childhood fantasy.

Contract is probably 5x$8.25

[mile]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I agree that works, but if you are Buffalo starting over with your rebuild, why do you want Monahan. Yes, he'll score you 30 goals when healthy but he isn't part of a rebuild.
Out of Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, and Monahan, Monahan has the lowest value by a landslide. The other GM's are not idiots, they see what we see plus a whole lot more without our home town bias.
Short of giving up a tonne of firsts, and all multiple prospects that would empty the cupboards, one of these has to be included. Monahan makes the most sense for the Flames but the least for Buffalo.

I agree, I'm assuming the rumored ask from Buffalo to Vegas (Smith, Krebs, Hague, 1st) is true, which I doubt.

Monahan is a better asset than Smith, Valimaki is better than Hague, our 1st is likely better than their 1st. Krebs is probably equal or better than all of our forward prospects but the other three pieces make it a better deal overall.

If Buffalo doesn't want Monahan, what about another possible idea:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1420864382062383104

This might work out better, Vegas has no cap space so targeting Monahan over Eichel might make more sense. Monahan might not want to waive his NTC to go to Buffalo, but probably would for Vegas. Vegas adds a pick to Smith and Buffalo gets the 4 /5 futures they want.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Icantwhisper

I agree that works, but if you are Buffalo starting over with your rebuild, why do you want Monahan. Yes, he'll score you 30 goals when healthy but he isn't part of a rebuild.
Out of Lindholm, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, and Monahan, Monahan has the lowest value by a landslide. The other GM's are not idiots, they see what we see plus a whole lot more without our home town bias.
Short of giving up a tonne of firsts, and all multiple prospects that would empty the cupboards, one of these has to be included. Monahan makes the most sense for the Flames but the least for Buffalo.

Monahan is still an asset that can be trade for picks/prospects. If you can find a team with cap space that wants him, they could be included in the deal to make it a 3 way trade.

I think it works better for Buffalo though if your ale Monahan and trade him at the deadline. More teams have the cap space to take him on by then, plus teams are more willing to trade picks/prospects at that point if they are in a playoff spot and want to go for it. Monahan will be a valuable player come trade deadline if he is healthy… with another year left on his contract at a reasonable price, he could easily fetch a first round pick by then.

Either way, Monahan has two years left on his deal and does not necessarily have to be a part of the rebuild for Buffalo. Instead, he is an asset that can be traded for more picks/prospects. It would be a smart move by Buffalo to take him in the trade.


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[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Johnny wasn't ready for Sutter hockey for sure.

But he adjusted, by probably reigning in some of the risk taking and then getting better suited linemates.

Hard to pinpoint obviously.

But for fun ...

CF%
Ward 50%
Sutter (1st 15) 48%
Sutter (Last 15) 57%

xGF%
Ward 54%
Sutter (1st 15) 42%
Sutter (Last 15) 61%

SCF%
Ward 50%
Sutter (1st 15) 46%
Sutter (Last 15) 55%

HDCF%
Ward 51%
Sutter (1st 15) 43%
Sutter (Last 15) 61%

I know when I coach kids hockey I don't like forwards to turn the puck over at either blueline; that's pretty much logical hockey 101.

Some when hearing that (kids and parents) snap and suggest you're dummying down the sport or making kids into robots. But no way ... you're just asking the kid with the puck to make an assessment. If he thinks he can beat a guy 90% of the time take the chances. If it's closer to 20% given the situation dump it in.

You could see Gaudreau change his assessment level tremendously as the season wore on.

How many of those 15 game splits were carrying a hobbled Sean Monahan and a useless Brett Ritchie around the ice though? Did he need to adjust to a new style or did he need to get his anchors taken away?

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by mile

If Buffalo doesn't want Monahan, what about another possible idea:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1420864382062383104

For some reason I thought this was tweeted by the creator of family guy

[Macho0978]

I could Carolina bring interested in Monahan for a lottery protected first. They are still a good team but too cheap to spend big money and monahan has 2 years left on deal

[savardandjokinen]

I would do that trade

Not sure how Smith is valued higher than Monahan

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Tkachuk is the better flip for the Sabres, so just give them Tkachuk.

Like, do we really wanna watch Matthew lumber around the ice for another 18 months before we trade him for a late 1st and garbage, or do we want to leverage him into a #1C?

Cuz he ain’t retiring here.

Are you kidding me?

Gaudreau-Eichel-Tkachuk
Mangiapane-Lindholm-Coleman

Is an absolutely insane top 6. A truly elite top line that could easily be the best in the league. The second line would be an elite shutdown unit that you put up against any teams top players.

I would trade Tkachuk for Eichel but if we could do something around Monahan instead I think that sets the team up so much better. Also not sure why Tkachuk is not going to get much in return but if they have to move him next summer they recoup their 1st that is surely lost in the Eichel deal

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think Johnny wasn't ready for Sutter hockey for sure.

But he adjusted, by probably reigning in some of the risk taking and then getting better suited linemates.

Hard to pinpoint obviously.

But for fun ...

CF%
Ward 50%
Sutter (1st 15) 48%
Sutter (Last 15) 57%

xGF%
Ward 54%
Sutter (1st 15) 42%
Sutter (Last 15) 61%

SCF%
Ward 50%
Sutter (1st 15) 46%
Sutter (Last 15) 55%

HDCF%
Ward 51%
Sutter (1st 15) 43%
Sutter (Last 15) 61%

I know when I coach kids hockey I don't like forwards to turn the puck over at either blueline; that's pretty much logical hockey 101.

Some when hearing that (kids and parents) snap and suggest you're dummying down the sport or making kids into robots. But no way ... you're just asking the kid with the puck to make an assessment. If he thinks he can beat a guy 90% of the time take the chances. If it's closer to 20% given the situation dump it in.

You could see Gaudreau change his assessment level tremendously as the season wore on.

those numbers are just "was Gaudreau stapled to Monahan and Ritchie?"

Neither Mony nor Ritchie were top 9 caliber forwards last year.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by mile

I agree, I'm assuming the rumored ask from Buffalo to Vegas (Smith, Krebs, Hague, 1st) is true, which I doubt.

Monahan is a better asset than Smith, Valimaki is better than Hague, our 1st is likely better than their 1st. Krebs is probably equal or better than all of our forward prospects but the other three pieces make it a better deal overall.

If Buffalo doesn't want Monahan, what about another possible idea:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1420864382062383104

This might work out better, Vegas has no cap space so targeting Monahan over Eichel might make more sense. Monahan might not want to waive his NTC to go to Buffalo, but probably would for Vegas. Vegas adds a pick to Smith and Buffalo gets the 4 /5 futures they want.

I quite like this idea. I think a three way trade is the way to go. Originally I was thinking with St. Louis for Tkachuk but if there was a way to do it with Monahan instead I’d be all over it.

Not sure how realistic this idea is but I think it could work with some tinkering.

[SuperMatt18]

Why would Buffalo have to add to Monahan to get Smith.

Monahan is 4 years younger, neither is great defensively, both had down seasons last year.

Monahan is easily a better asset than Smith.

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Why would Buffalo have to add to Monahan to get Smith.

Monahan is 4 years younger, neither is great defensively, both had down seasons last year.

Monahan is easily a better asset than Smith.

It would only make sense if he put the pick on the wrong side of the deal

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by mile

I don't think this is true.



Let's say Monahan (who has the lowest cap hit out of him, Tkachuk, and Gaudreau) is moved along with Valimaki, a prospect, and a pick for Eichel

Dube, Mackey, Kylington, Zadorov and depth guy like Stone are all signed to reasonable deals.



Gaudreau (6.75) - Eichel (10) - Mangiapane (2.425)
Tkachuk (7) - Lindholm (4.85) - Coleman (4.9)
Dube (2) - Backlund (5.35) - Pitlick (1.75)
Lucic (5.25) - Ruzicka (801k) - Lewis (800k)
Ritchie (900k)

Hanifin (4.95) - Andersson (4.55)
Zadorov (4) - Tanev (4.5)
Mackey (1) - Kylington (850k)
Stone (800k)

Markstrom (6)
Vladar (750k)

Total: 80.176m

A little more than 1.3 million in cap space if I did the math correctly.
If Zadorov signs for 500k higher, there's still a little breathing room.

Can't imagine Tre is doing much right now other than working on the Gaudreau extension and checking in on the trade market. RFA deals can be done after that.

Did you include the Brouwer buyout ($1.5M). Don't meant to be picky but the Flames would need to nickle and dime a bit. They would also lose one of Mangiapane/Gaudreau/Tkachuk the following year as they would all require raises. Aside from that the lineup looks pretty good assuming Tanev doesn't get injured.