Friedman: Flames have begun extension talks with Gaudreau & Eichel speculation

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Tkachuk is 23, not 28. So it's not a comparable at all.

Yes, I mentioned exactly that. But Eichel has also shown more than Seguin at the same age, is locked up at a known value for longer, and there are more open question about what Tkachuk actually is than what Eriksson was.

It's not apples to apples.

I agree Kipper, Buffalo will not get 4 premium pieces. But I think they will get 3, and the 3 in the Seguin trade were viewed as Premium (ish) at the time.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Calgary was documented as bidding too though, so clearly Chiarelli chose the Dallas offer.

Eriksson was 28, 4 straight campaigns at 25+G, 70 points and a bit of a bulldog attitude and strong defensive acumen at the time. He had a rapid decline, but he was a pretty strong piece for a team looking to compete for another cup. Reilly Smith was a big strong winger prospect who had just had a great campaign in the AHL, Joe Morrow was a 1st round pick from 2 years prior. Rich Peverly came with Seguin, so not a complete nobody, but firmly a bottom 6 player, and one who was on his way out of the league. The other players were inconsequential.

IMO it boiled down to strong 2 way roster player close to ppg in prime, recent 1st, and an almost blue chip prospect. Definietly an underpay looking back, but it was closer to reasonable at the time (especially as seguin had largely struggled with consistency and effort.)

A comparable from us might be Tkachuk+ Ruzicka + valimaki. I think it's too much as Tkachuk is younger than Eriksson was and has longer on his runway, but there are questions about his next contract and ultimate ceiling.

I think a strong offer would be Mony, 2022 1st, Anderson, and a b prospect. That being said I have a bad feeling about Eichel so I'm personally hoping we don't win the bidding war.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and 3 years ago, Monahan was ranked in the top 10

I'm talking 10 months ago but okay

Eichel is by far the best player available for trade or signing...sure there are some risks like with everything else ever. Like I said you could tank for 10 years and still suck like a lot of teams.

Oilers drafted #1 overall 4 times and one of them is better than Eichel

[dammage79]

I don't think Buffalo wants to take on chunks of cap.

So here's my pitch:
2022 1st unprotected (Ask #4)
Mangiapane (Ask#1 from Buffalo, young cheap player with upside)
Kylington (Ask #2 NHL ready prospect)
Jacob Pelletier(Ask #3 high end prospect)

Flames would just have to make their cap room in other trades.

Then, if you land Eichel you can explore moving one of Monny or Backlund.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

What you say they’ll get is pretty much what they’ve been asking for isn’t it? I thought the ask has been two good young players a first and a good prospect?

from the way ppl are proposing ideas on this forum the ask seems to be an elite young forward (tkachuk), a 1st, another young nhler with upside (valimaki), 1st and a blue chip prospect. That would be gross overpayment imo and doesn't compare to Mony+1st +B prospect + anderson. Value of my proposal is roughly 3/4 of the ask imo.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Playing with Gaudreau, coached by Sutter with Markstrom in net. 3 things the guy has never had before.

He played with 40 goal Jeff Skinner with Lehner in net so the only thing missing was Sutter. Good center, far from elite.

[Sofa GM]

Eichel is overrated, will settle in as a top 15 center. Won’t be considered elite

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

I think a strong offer would be Mony, 2022 1st, Anderson, and a b prospect. That being said I have a bad feeling about Eichel so I'm personally hoping we don't win the bidding war.

I like this offer because I am not as high on Andersson reaching potential, but we are pretty bereft of RD talent in his wake.

It is a stronger offer than you give it credit for though. IMO Rasmus >> Valimaki in terms of league wide value (especially if Ristolainen retained strong value.) + Monahan is a ? in the same way Eichel is right now. He could revert to 30+ goals next season...

I would still make the trade, but I think the value is close to the other proposal.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

He played with 40 goal Jeff Skinner with Lehner in net so the only thing missing was Sutter. Good center, far from elite.

Are you really comparing Skinner to Gaudreau?

But really, the Flames are a much better team than any of the Sabres teams he’s been on.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Eichel is overrated, will settle in as a top 15 center. Won’t be considered elite

But we would have two top 30 centres in he and Lindholm. This is the point. He doesn't need to be top 5, but he clearly has the potential to be if the cards play out right.

[Macman]

I don't think Jack Eichel will be coming here either unless the Flames really overpay and then he still wouldn't want to come here.

He's an American that wants to play in a big American market.

He also has a terrible contract imo.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Lindros, Lemieux, Kariya, Crosby. Bure. Forsberg. Gary Roberts (maybe a little less than 80%).

All suffered career-threatening injuries in their mid 20s and came back to 80%+ of their pre-injury form for 4+ years.

Lafontaine, Neely, and Eric Daze had shorter resurgences, but were still great for a while. Pretty sure Daze is the only one who was effectively done before age 30.

I'm struggling to think of many other guys who were fully out in their mid 20s. Dan Blackburn? I'm sure there are others, but the odds seem to be in JE's favour...

Stars? I dunno. Bossy was 29. So was Rick Martin. Deadmarsh was a potential star. Lots of midrange players though - like Ferland (maybe).

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Eichel is overrated, will settle in as a top 15 center. Won’t be considered elite

I doubt he comes to the Flames but some of these posts will age so badly IMO

He was already easily top 10 and knocking on the door of top 5 at 23 playing for a joke of a team with sad sack coaching

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

But we would have two top 30 centres in he and Lindholm. This is the point. He doesn't need to be top 5, but he clearly has the potential to be if the cards play out right.

But you can’t send top tier prospects and futures for a guy like that. We are highly underestimating his injury status. Keep hearing the same surgery as Peyton Manning. Peyton Manning was a shell of his former self after the surgery. Widely documented that he had to get people to tie his cleats. Not saying not to add him, saying price has to be reflective of it.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by _Q_

And I think that's fine.

You can build a championship team around a top 10 centre in Eichel, a top 20 centre in Lindholm, an elite playmaker in Gaudreau and a top notch goalie in Markstrom.

I don't think the Flames need Eichel to be a generational talent in order to be competitive.

Eichel has 12 more points since 2015/16 season than Monahan, who is #20 scoring center in the league. Where is Lindholm, 30th. Recent bias doesn't change the fact that Monahan produces at a point that is close or better than the guys you mention.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I like this offer because I am not as high on Andersson reaching potential, but we are pretty bereft of RD talent in his wake.

It is a stronger offer than you give it credit for though. IMO Rasmus >> Valimaki in terms of league wide value (especially if Ristolainen retained strong value.) + Monahan is a ? in the same way Eichel is right now. He could revert to 30+ goals next season...

I would still make the trade, but I think the value is close to the other proposal.

I have Anderson at lower value because he is already getting paid and the cap space will be needed for extentions in the next 2 seasons. I too worry about the rhs depth on D but Anderson has been a big disappointment there especially last season .

Mony is lower value than Tkachuk , though it may be close when healthy,

1st is the same

B prospect <<< top prospect

[Savvy27]

Eichel is far better than he is getting credit for here. His only mediocre season production-wise was nearly a point per game and he played through broken ribs and covid.

I am concerned about his neck, but he is an awesome player and if healthy he would be the best forward Calgary has had since Iginla. I really think he would surprise a lot of you guys.

[Vinny01]

It feels like the Sabres are losing momentum with trades.

Risto was shockingly good for Buffalo
Reinhart was meh at best and he got less than I thought.
Eichel will hopefully underwhelm Buffalo fans even more (as long as the deal is to Calgary)

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Macman

I don't think Jack Eichel will be coming here either unless the Flames really overpay and then he still wouldn't want to come here.

He's an American that wants to play in a big American market.

He also has a terrible contract imo.

Cool that you know him. Any other inside info you know about we don't?

[Macman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Cool that you know him. Any other inside info you know about we don't?

There is this little issue.

https://www.nhl.com/news/jack-eichel...rs/c-324641692