Does Sven have a future with the Flames?

[edslunch]

No room on the big team for now and while he's playing better he isn't scoring. Send him down, hopefully he gets back in the scoring groove without falling back into old habits. No point trading him now - let him rebuild value.

Once he's producing he comes up for injury replacement or if a vet is traded - if he is the next in line.

No rush, the Flames have until next year to make a decision on him before he becomes waiver bait.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by edslunch

No room on the big team for now and while he's playing better he isn't scoring. Send him down, hopefully he gets back in the scoring groove without falling back into old habits. No point trading him now - let him rebuild value.

Once he's producing he comes up for injury replacement or if a vet is traded - if he is the next in line.

No rush, the Flames have until next year to make a decision on him before he becomes waiver bait.

Disagree that there is no rush. His value drops as he gets closer to having to pass through waivers. Any team that would trade for him at that point would have to be confident that he could stick with their NHL team. Trade him now and the team getting him has time to integrate him into their system and see where he fits. They get two thirds of a year to evaluate him and bring him up to speed before they have to make their own decisions on him.

If he goes to the end of this year with his current NHL and AHL production numbers his value is almost zero. His value has been dropping every day since he finished junior. I wish the Flames had traded him back then.

[Five-hole]

I think people are underestimating the effect the quality of linemates Baertschi has been playing with on his production. Not only are they unable to be in position and capitalize on any plays Sven makes (and there have been a few nice passes each game over the last 5 or so), but the style of game they play is totally unsuited to Sven's. Bouma and Bollig go bang bodies, muck it up in the corners, and crash the net. They have basically zero finesse, and Sven is a 100% finesse player.

I'm not arguing that Sven deserves any better ice than 4th line. He doesn't. He's been outplayed by Glencross (obviously) and Gaudreau (obviously), and, on a shift-by-shift basis, mostly outplayed by Ferland.

It's okay to be disappointed in Sven's play. But I don't think it's fair to be disappointed in his production. It's like asking two investors to earn some money, and you give one of them a million dollars and the other one $10,000, and then compare them on the total principal of the portfolio rather than their rate of return.

Personally I think Sven's game was looking a hell of a lot more NHL ready over the last 5 games he played than perhaps at any point in his career.

(Ironically, Ferland's game is better suited to playing with guys like Bouma and Bollig, but we apparently want to evenly distribute the "beef".)

[blender]

Decent discussion, and not intending to direct my comments at any posters in particular, but I think it is senseless to worry about Sven's place on the big team. The coaches and management will worry about it and act accordingly.

A quick look at the Josh Jooris signs thread should be evidence enough that the team is in better hands than if we (CalgaryPuck) were running it.

It's all about Sven being a young player trying to break into the best league in the world. When the team needs him in Calgary he'll be here; when they need him in Adirondack he'll be there. His job is to be a pro wherever he goes.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

I think people are underestimating the effect the quality of linemates Baertschi has been playing with on his production. Not only are they unable to be in position and capitalize on any plays Sven makes (and there have been a few nice passes each game over the last 5 or so), but the style of game they play is totally unsuited to Sven's. Bouma and Bollig go bang bodies, muck it up in the corners, and crash the net. They have basically zero finesse, and Sven is a 100% finesse player.

I'm not arguing that Sven deserves any better ice than 4th line. He doesn't. He's been outplayed by Glencross (obviously) and Gaudreau (obviously), and, on a shift-by-shift basis, mostly outplayed by Ferland.

It's okay to be disappointed in Sven's play. But I don't think it's fair to be disappointed in his production. It's like asking two investors to earn some money, and you give one of them a million dollars and the other one $10,000, and then compare them on the total principal of the portfolio rather than their rate of return.

Personally I think Sven's game was looking a hell of a lot more NHL ready over the last 5 games he played than perhaps at any point in his career.

(Ironically, Ferland's game is better suited to playing with guys like Bouma and Bollig, but we apparently want to evenly distribute the "beef".)

That might be true of fourth liners on most teams, but on the Flames the offence is driven by the defence. Most of his shifts are with Gio and Brodie or Russell and Wideman. Any of which can capitalize on Sven's playmaking if he is in fact making good plays.

[Where ru Chris O'Sullivan]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

If Backlund had a future with the Flames, despite taking 6 years to come into his own as a player, then yes, Sven can have a future with the Flames too.

(Sven has only had 3 to this point)

Totally different situation,

Backlund has never had to outplay another centre to make the team. In his early years they made room for him as a first rounder, then we had Feaster who signed KHL centres (who weren't) centres, so he grabbed the position by default, not merit.

Sven isn't so lucky, there's a lot of people ahead of him that will make it difficult to displace.

Backs on the other hand, because of injury to Bennett is primed for a 9th life, once he himself returns.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I'm not buying the linemate argument. Baertschi had good linemates in the AHL and couldn't score.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by New Era

To be blunt, no. He's run out of time. As Flash Walken said, Sven was a 7 surrounded by 3s when he was drafted. He's now being compared to 8s and 9s and he doesn't fare well. The Flames are going to be forced into a bad situation next year with Baertschi. They either keep him up or risk losing him for nothing. At this point the smart move is to trade him in a package for a player in a position we find ourselves short, like RW or RD. Sven may have a NHL future, but it isn't in Calgary and it isn't in the top six.

a lot of people say this, but I don't think he was a 7.... maybe he is now, but he was a pretty damn good prospect a few years ago. Maybe not now but lets not re-write history here...

I think he's more like a 8, surrounded by a bunch of other 8's...... also that guaranteed spot a few years ago seemed to really set him back.

[Dion]

I don't think he has a future with the Flames. We already have small forwards in Gaudreau and Byron and that in itself makes the task much more difficult for Sven. He also has to score on a regular basis to have a spot on this team. I just don't see him displacing any vets or prospects we have on the team right now.

Our biggest need right now is on defence and I would think that maybe Sven could be used as trade bait to further fill our depth in that area.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

To be blunt, no. He's run out of time. As Flash Walken said, Sven was a 7 surrounded by 3s when he was drafted. He's now being compared to 8s and 9s and he doesn't fare well. The Flames are going to be forced into a bad situation next year with Baertschi. They either keep him up or risk losing him for nothing. At this point the smart move is to trade him in a package for a player in a position we find ourselves short, like RW or RD. Sven may have a NHL future, but it isn't in Calgary and it isn't in the top six.

That's some serious revisionist history there.

In the season after the draft, Baertschi led all CHL players with a 2.0 GPG.

All CHL players. That doesn't make him a 7.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Disagree that there is no rush. His value drops as he gets closer to having to pass through waivers. Any team that would trade for him at that point would have to be confident that he could stick with their NHL team. Trade him now and the team getting him has time to integrate him into their system and see where he fits. They get two thirds of a year to evaluate him and bring him up to speed before they have to make their own decisions on him.

If he goes to the end of this year with his current NHL and AHL production numbers his value is almost zero. His value has been dropping every day since he finished junior. I wish the Flames had traded him back then.

Sven's production has been just fine. He's had very limited minutes, and usually very limited line mates. If he got normal 2nd and 3rd line teammates, and was playing 12-15 minutes per game, he'd be producing 40+ points without breaking a sweat.

The team is being hard on him because they know he has the potential to be an 80+ point player, and they want him to have the defensive and physical game to match.

If you have a player who is a bit entitled, and has loads of talent, but needs to work on hit grit, defensive game and consistency, in order to be elite... what do you do?

I'd give him a pretty similar treatment to what Sven is getting.

[kyuss275]

Seeing a couple of posts mentioning Backlund career path. I don't think you can compare his to Svens. If you are going to compare it to somebody it would probably be colbournes. Sven has until the end of next camp to show he belongs full time. Not sure where he sits with a bunch of prospects being just as ready?

Flames will have a big decision on Sven to make, probably latest at the draft. Do they trade him then and try and get a better return, or do they chance it, and hope he makes the team out of camp? If he does not make it, I see Sven entering Colbourne territory . Lose him to waivers for nothing, or trade him for a 3rd ( I think that's what Flames paid for Colborne).

Hopefully Sven shows something by the end of the year for the flames to want to take a chance on him for next years camp.

[FlameZilla]

I've liked his game recently. He's shown a lot of jump out there. Makes clever plays but unfortunately they haven't resulted in many points because of the quality of his linemates. Thing is, he's not better than any of the guys ahead of him on the depth chart, so he may as well develop a bit more in the AHL for the time being. No harm in that.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Sven's production has been just fine. He's had very limited minutes, and usually very limited line mates. If he got normal 2nd and 3rd line teammates, and was playing 12-15 minutes per game, he'd be producing 40+ points without breaking a sweat.

The team is being hard on him because they know he has the potential to be an 80+ point player, and they want him to have the defensive and physical game to match.

If you have a player who is a bit entitled, and has loads of talent, but needs to work on hit grit, defensive game and consistency, in order to be elite... what do you do?

I'd give him a pretty similar treatment to what Sven is getting.

I'd have tried to trade him while his value was high and others hadn't realized that he is a bit entitled, needs to work on his grit, defensive game, AND consistency.

As soon as he showed up at that rookie camp acting like he shouldn't have to be there and playing like he wanted to be anywhere but there, I was ready to move him. Add to that he had already had injury problems, including concussions, and it was probably the last time his value was still high enough to get a really top return.

If he can turn it around and become an elite player for us, I will gladly eat crow on this. I'll have seconds and thirds! But I've honestly all but given up on him.

[c.t.ner]

I think it's waaay to early to be writing off Sven and even proclaiming that he's no longer in the organization's plans long term. Even if you include Bennet into the equation, Sven is still the 5th youngest player on the roster at 22 years old (and in a pack with guys like Reinhart, Arnold and Agostino on the farm).

It goes without saying that last year was a complete write off for the kid and he's now a year behind in his progress, but he's still a pretty young prospect with a high upside. If a 24 year old Corbon Knight and Ben Hankowski aren't considered out of the organization yet, then Baertschi has plenty of time to get back on track.

[blender]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

But I've honestly all but given up on him.

Luckily fan opinion is totally irrelevant to hockey operations.

See Jooris thread for proof.

[Fire]

Unless Sven drastically improves by the end of the year I don't think the Flames have to worry about losing him on waivers. He would pass quite easily.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Fire

Unless Sven drastically improves by the end of the year I don't think the Flames have to worry about losing him on waivers. He would pass quite easily.

lol

[taxbuster]

The Flames have time and space to be patient with Sven. One would have to think that they realize the former regime was, perhaps, too "quick" with him...he clearly has skill and ability in spades, and needs time to get confidence. Send him back to Addy for some seasoning, with an awareness that - with hard work and diligence - he will earn his way back up. It's then up to him to put in the effort, both on the ice and between his ears.

[Vinny01]

It is unfortunate how things unfolded for Sven. He was an exciting pick at the time I remember in some mock drafts he was 7-8th overall. The main reason he was exciting was the fact he wasn't Mark McNeil or any other big Canadian grinder we were used to under Sutter (Chucko, Pelech, Nemisz). He seemed to symbolize the start of a new era for drafting for the Flames where skill was a top priority.

He impressed in camp but things really ramped up during his post draft season. 2ppg and dynamic with the puck. Albany Flames fans dreamed he could be called up and thanks to injuries it happened. 3 goals in 5 games all wins was everything we could have hoped for.

The next season started in a lockout and we were treated to Sven turning pro. I remember watching heat games and Sven looked like the best player on either team playing and I was convinced he was going to be an instant impact player at the NHL level.

When Burke came on the scene and stated he wasn't sold I was a fan that didn't agree. He has seemingly fallen off a cliff since the start of last year. He had a few nice offensive plays when paired with Monahan but invisible in every other aspect of the game.

I feel he has been given every opportunity this year. He was a late cut in camp even though he was mediocre, and he was an early call up this season despite poor stats (admittedly didn't watch). Outside of a game or 2 he has been pretty bad this year. Johnny and Monahan quickly passed him last year but Jooris, Granlund, and Ferland have passed him this year.

I don't want to give him away but wouldnt mind if he was shipped to shore up other needs. His pedigree and the flames amole cap space make for an interesting package. I used to see him as a top line or at least top 6 winger long term on this team. He even said he wanted to be the next franchise player but I just don't see it anymore.