Does Sven have a future with the Flames?

[dammage79]

There's going to be a point where Sven will ask himself if he sees a future with the Flames. I expect any player to be disappointed when they're sent down but Sven has a habit of letting the process be emotionally draining on him. I suppose time will tell after all and RFA rules keep him a Flames asset for another 3 to 5 years.

Does he have a future in Calgary in my view? 2/3rds of me says no. There's too many players leapfrogging him and so many main roster spots to be had.

Doesn't help when players like Poirier, Granlund, Ferland and Jooris are all jumping ahead or catching up too fast to him.

[Tyler]

If our cupboards were bare, then yes, absolutely.

Right now? He may as well enjoy airplane travel and nice hotels because its not going to last much longer.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Also, if he can get back to making those beautiful saucer passes like those he was dishing for a few games there, then he'll be back much sooner than later.

I see this as Calgary's Nazem Kadri situation.

I get the comparison but outside of it merely being convenient, I can't wrap my head around it. As a non-Leafs fan, I can honestly say that at the very least, Kadri was prone to show tremendous glimpses from time to time early in his career.

Aside from Sven's initial emergency call up, I can't say he's ever impressed me with more than the occasional slick pass every 15-20 games. Kid doesn't have the jam to make it in the bottom 6 in this league and until he starts producing offensively he doesn't have much to offer the Flames. If being passed by fresh prospects every year doesn't motivate him at this point he's probably a lost cause.

[RyZ]

I don't think so. Not on the Flames at least. I think he can still salvage a good career in another organization but he isn't going to get a good situation here in the next year or 2.

I'd like to see the Flames trade him right now rather than send him back down to the AHL.

[Erick Estrada]

He's no longer a franchise player in waiting so it's just a matter of giving him every opportunity in the AHL to hone his pro game. Sven having a future with the Flames is going to depend on Sven himself and if he can improve his game.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Sven Baertschi is essentially the Flames' own version of Nail Yakupov.

They had virtually identical CHL production at 1.58 ppg, but with Sven as a playmaker and Yak as a trigger man. In the NHL, Sven has produced at a 34 point/season pace, while Yakupov has produced at a 37 point/season pace. Sven is a cumulative -6 in his 65 career NHL games, while Yakupov is a cumulative -48 in his 138 games (Yalupov gets a lot more ice, so I'd bet their +/- per min is pretty similar).

If the Flames had Yakupov, what would you suggest they do? I would suggest they NOT trade him when his value is at an all-time low, but rather make him fight for bottom-6 minutes to work on his defensive game, and have him play in the AHL when someone else is outperforming him.

Both guys have significantly improved their defensive game and their physical compete level this season, but are having difficulty scoring. I think they have both improved materially, and just need some more time before that translates into them delivering the goods at both ends of the ice.

I hope Yakupov doesn't have a future with the Oilers.

And for the same reasons, I hope Sven does have a future with the Flames.

[puckedoff]

Package him for defensive help/depth

[FlatLandFlamesFan]

IMHO I think Sven is starting to find his game in the NHL ,playing on the 4th line with limited ice I've seen some flashes of skill that had us all very excited not so long ago, and a better understanding of playing against Pros
I think the Detroits way of letting players "over-ripen" in the AHL could do Sven wonders as he's just not getting 1st/2nd line duty right now.
In time I like to think he may be our next A.Tanguay.
but hey as a looong time Flames fan I'm familiar with hoping against hope. Treiliving and crew seem to have a good grasp on how to develop players (which we haven't had in years) so I'll trust them to do what is right for Sven long term.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

I get the comparison but outside of it merely being convenient, I can't wrap my head around it. As a non-Leafs fan, I can honestly say that at the very least, Kadri was prone to show tremendous glimpses from time to time early in his career.

Aside from Sven's initial emergency call up, I can't say he's ever impressed me with more than the occasional slick pass every 15-20 games. Kid doesn't have the jam to make it in the bottom 6 in this league and until he starts producing offensively he doesn't have much to offer the Flames. If being passed by fresh prospects every year doesn't motivate him at this point he's probably a lost cause.

Well he sure impressed me last fall when he was setting up Monahan nightly, and played a large role in Monahan staying beyond his 9 game stint.

But sure, since then he hasn't.

[Coach]

I think that Sven will be a pretty good NHL player, but I do think he ends up being traded in favour of Poirier/Jooris/Ferland/Granlund etc... Probably not for a year or so, but I feel like he'll get moved at some point.

[ThatsRobbery]

I dont think you can just give up on Sven right now. Ive seen some good progression from him playing 4th line minutes and he was making some good plays with Bouma I thought recently, but they havent had that effective 3rd person with them.

If were looking at pure skill, Sven is probably 3rd highest of our young guys behind Gaudreau/Bennett. You dont give up on skill like that especially when his value is at an all-time low at the moment. If you can package him for a good young D-man then fine I can live with that, but I have dreams of a Gaudreau/Sven 1/2 LW setting up guys for years.

I do think he has been leapfrogged by some guys, but the only guys near his level of ability are Poirer/Granlund. I really like Josh Jooris, but he realistically isnt gonna stay this hot on the offensive side, and Ferland will be a solid big body winger, but in today's NHL, you need that skill which Sven can bring,w hcih I think we will see sometime in the future. Whether that is with Calgary or not remains to be seen I suppose

[flylock shox]

There will come a time (likely sooner than any of us expected at the beginning of this season) that Calgary goes from an "accept the losses and develop the young guys" mode to a "time to contend" mode. At that point, they won't be looking to trade veterans in favour of prospects and picks, but will start looking to trade prospects and picks for veterans as they gear up to be a competitive playoff team.

If Sven isn't ensconced on the top two lines in Calgary when that time comes, he's gone IMO.

At this juncture, I wouldn't be surprised if Sven broaches the issue of a trade himself, rather than waiting for management to bring one to him.

[Coach]

It's not keep giving him a chance vs give up on him.

You can trade a player while still thinking they are a good player, just not one that fits or has been overstepped by other prospects. If you can flip him for a prospect of need (ie a dman) that would be ideal for the team. It's not a slap to Baertschi to consider him as an asset to be used to bring back other useful players.

[GioforPM]

I think you underrate Ferland's skill.

Ferland's puckhandling skill rivals if not beats, Sven's. He was making moves like Johnny behind the net. He skates as well as Sven, if not better. Sven may be a better passer.

He was a PPG guy in junior except 2011-12 when he was way more than that. (1.4 I think). He was a PPG in the AHL this year (only 9 games).

[Badgers Nose]

Back on track, re: Sven

Who cares?

This is team is great even w/o a big contribution form him. I hope he gets his stuff together, but I don't care either way. This team is finally on the right track development wise and is beyond any of the all the eggs in 1-2 baskets non-sense from the last 20 or so years.

It's been since the late eighties that we fans have had such a steady stream of young talent to keep the vets honest.

Sven needs the Flames more than they need him. When he starts playing with Byron or Jooris intensity I am sure Flames will find a spot for him.

If not they have league in Switzerland.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MattyC

It's not keep giving him a chance vs give up on him.

You can trade a player while still thinking they are a good player, just not one that fits or has been overstepped by other prospects. If you can flip him for a prospect of need (ie a dman) that would be ideal for the team. It's not a slap to Baertschi to consider him as an asset to be used to bring back other useful players.

True. The Oilers drafted assets at fwd, but refused to use, say Yak or Eberle for a good goalie or defenceman, or even a centre, when their value was higher. If they had Hall+RNH+good Dman + decent goalie. they'd be miles ahead.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

True. The Oilers drafted assets at fwd, but refused to use, say Yak or Eberle for a good goalie or defenceman, or even a centre, when their value was higher. If they had Hall+RNH+good Dman + decent goalie. they'd be miles ahead.

Yeah trading a guy doesn't mean you think he's bad or done. Maybe he doesn't fit in your system, maybe he's got the highest value out of any of your expendables from that position and so you deal him. Not everyone that CAN be on this team WILL be on this team when all is said and done.

[ricardodw]

To play in the NHL he either has to revert to a goal scoring machine or put on 15 lbs of muscle and win some puck battles.

If he goes with the natural ability that he was blessed with he has to be more offensively dynamic than Gaudreau, Hulder or Raymond. None of these guys is expected to play a physical game at all and have to perform with outrageous skill.

Realistically Baertschi might be able to beat out Raymond who has always had the skill but the Canucks and the Flames (last year) did not think that his high skill was enough to over-come his non-aggressive , no contact play.

Why is Granlund with the Flames and Rienhart in the AHL? It could be argued that Rienhart had every bit as a good a season in the AHL as Granlund. Somewhere over the last year it got through to Granlund that he had to physically compete and make some hits and block some shots. Rienhart did not even try to play like Bouma on the 4th line.

It might have taken him the full off season after his first North American season. Marks him as intelligent and coachable.

It took Backlund 3-4 seasons to get through that there was more to him being successful than dispsy doodling and avoiding contact. in 2011-12 season as a 21 year old he was playing a lot like Baertschi is today. He didn't buy in to NHL hockey until half way through last year.... as a 24 year old after Burke openingly wanted to trade him.

Baertschi has to decide if he only wants to play in the NHL as Gaudreau/Raymond or if he is willing to be Backlund.

The Flames organization has basically told him to be a Backlund, that he does not have the crazy skills of a Gaudreau / Cammalleri.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Left shooting wingers or centers on the pro roster for (likely) the next 3 years:
Hudler
Gaudreau
Raymond
Colborne
Bouma
Bollig

I don't see him replacing any of those top 5 in that time.

Prospects who are LW or left shooting Centers/RWers (because you never know where they will end up in the NHL):
Granlund
Ferland
Poirier
Reinhart
Bennett
Jankowski
Klimchuk
Hanowski
Agostino

That is a crazy list of talent to compete with for NHL jobs.

The problem with Sven really boils down to what type of game can he play in the NHL effectively?

Clearly he is a gifted playmaker, there is zero doubt he can do that part of his game consistently at the NHL level.

Is he a goal scorer? Not lately. He hasn't scored an NHL goal since Nov. 22 2013, and he only has 8 goals over parts of 4 seasons (65 games), and that includes his 3 goal in 5 game stretch. He's likely never going to be a regular goalscorer in the NHL.

Is he a top 6 guy who can also handle defensive responsibilities that come with those minutes? That's questionable so far. He's been schooled at times on the defensive end and has been hemmed in by the oppositions 4th line during his time this year. He still struggles to make the easy/simple plays to disrupt the opposition's attack.

Can he handle physical match ups and still be effective? The jury is out on that one. You can argue Gaudreau can get overmatched physically, but then he manages to create offensively despite that problem. Also, it's hard to be competitive with a lot of smaller softer players. You need bigger players with them to balance things out.

So where does a guy who is still a fairly one dimensional player fit into a franchise where accountability and strong 2-way play is demanded of everyone?

More so than anything else, his game, as it is today, doesn't fit the identity of this team. Can he still change? Yes. Will he still be an effective NHLer if he does? I don't know. I don't even know if he's an NHLer if he doesn't change his game.

I just think he's the type of prospect that people would be intrigued to give a chance to, and in return you could get a very solid defenseman or RW prospect to even out what we have coming down the pipe. For those reasons, I think you see him traded in a package for a player that is ready to play defense in the NHL in the next year or two.

[Lanny_McDonald]

To be blunt, no. He's run out of time. As Flash Walken said, Sven was a 7 surrounded by 3s when he was drafted. He's now being compared to 8s and 9s and he doesn't fare well. The Flames are going to be forced into a bad situation next year with Baertschi. They either keep him up or risk losing him for nothing. At this point the smart move is to trade him in a package for a player in a position we find ourselves short, like RW or RD. Sven may have a NHL future, but it isn't in Calgary and it isn't in the top six.