Flames Identity Crisis

[Classic_Sniper]

After years of first round disappointments, early season exits and this team’s underwhelming start despite now having a Vezina calibre goaltender in net, I think the conclusion can be made that this team quite simply put, has no identity or if they do have one, it’s probably Confusion.

If the name of the game is to ultimately dictate to your opponent and force them to play your style, then I can see why this team has failed most periods, most nights and basically every season because all you have to do is look at other successful teams and compare their identities with the Flames and the answer becomes pretty clear that this team may never be able to match up:

Top Teams:

Tampa Bay = Highly Skilled
Colorado = Fast, Skilled
Washington = Heavy, Skilled
St Louis = Heavy
Dallas = Heavy
Las Vegas = Fast, Checking

Past Top Teams:

Chicago = Highly Skilled
LA Kings = Heavy
Pittsburgh = Fast, Skilled
2004 Flames = Hard Working


Current Calgary Flames:

Fast? NO
This team is actually kind of slow, slow players up and down the line up. Slow on the forecheck, slow on the backcheck, slow on puck pursuits, not a lot of breakaway speed either minus Gaudreau
Heavy? NO
So if this team is slow, are they at least heavy? Nope. They have a couple players who can throw their weight around but this team seems to have difficulty defending heavier teams, bigger bodies and on the cycle.
Skilled? Sometimes
Sometimes we see a skilled team. But make no mistake, this is not a highly skilled team anywhere close to the same level of a Tampa Bay or even a Toronto right now. Where are the one timers? Who can score from distance? Where are the game breakers? Who has breakaway speed? This team has such difficulty scoring at times, they have to manufacture goals, they can’t really score themselves out of trouble like the more skilled teams. So when they get down, which is often, they take more risks and it usually costs them
Hard Working = NO
This one is easy. Just look at the 2004 Flames and compare. This team is downright lazy in comparison. If Darryl Sutter’s Flames were considered hard working and that’s the standard, then this team has nothing to offer in this department.
Checking? - Sometimes
I understand that the management wants a checking team that can score. But we watch this team constantly shoot themselves in the foot by leaving themselves vulnerable for counter attacks (breakaways, odd man rushes. Since I’ve already established that this team is neither fast or heavy, how exactly do they impose their will? This management group needs to honestly assess if this is the right personnel to get it done or whether they even have the right vision in the first place.


So then all roads lead to the management group, specifically Brad Treliving. I won’t question whether he’s a good GM or not, because he is. I won’t question his work ethic either because it’s probably tops in the league. But I will question his vision. His philosophy. He’s had 7 years to figure it out and how much further ahead is this team really from his first season?

So is this team’s identity supposed to be BALANCED? Is that the answer? Because if that’s the answer, then their identity should be nothing, because being in the same ballpark as all these other teams, doesn’t mean you’ll ever beat them. We’re like KMart or Sears. Ok at everything, good at nothing.” We can do this, but someone else is always there that does it better. So we fall into limbo

My personal belief is, until this team picks an actual direction, they’ll never be truly elite. They’ll be stuck in the middle, perpetual mediocrity as some have put it. They’ll continue lose to the Avs, they’ll lose to the Stars, the Blues, the Golden Knights. This team is first round fodder, second round if we’re lucky. I’d be happy to be proven wrong on this subject. But right now, at this moment, this team looks a lot closer to the Minnesota Wild right now then the Vegas Golden Knights.

[TheSquatch]

Key cogs in this dilemma (to my eyes) are Monahan not being especially fast or especially mean, and the Bennett pick not producing a bona fide game changer.

[Gaskal]

Well I think the three pillars were (thanks to Burkie's influence):

1.) We will outwork our opponent each night
2.) We will play a fast and up-tempo, exciting style of play
3.) We will be very dedicated to local community service (always a given thanks to the captain)

So... 1 is a zilch, maybe like one complete 60 minute effort I've seen so far this season. 2 is definitely a zilch. Three is always taken care of, but not terribly reflective of on-ice results.

[Harry Lime]

The Flames identity is soft, unprepared, folds easily with no pushback, won't stick up for teammates. Also, skilled and fast but that is not part of the gameplan, so five man unit on all plays. Plays down to the competition, and plays down to the slower, less skilled players on their own team.

Lots of individual skill, but the strategy is to play without individual achievement. Point totals are accidental. No competition within the team or without.

Less exciting Nashville?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Less exciting Nashville?

Is that even possible?


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[KootenayFlamesFan]

This team has been mentally weak for many years now. They have some decent skill but they're not an elite skilled team at all. For me this team, this core group, is a consistently inconsistent mentally weak team, especially when they face adversity. They will have games or even days or weeks of good games, but they just are too weak between the ears to sustain any real long stretches of play. Kinda sad that that's their identity.

I'll still cheer for them to do well, but I just know this team isn't really going anywhere with this roster. Just keep hoping they do well enough to make the playoffs and the have their star goalie stand on his head for a few weeks to make a playoff run. He's the only way this team will have playoff success at all.

[getoverit]

But buy Ward said we have an identity

[Winsor_Pilates]

Deep, defensively solid, hard working and fast in transition.
That's what they should be and the team is built for.

The coach disagrees however.

[David Struch]

The Flames have been trying to bring in new leadership for a while now, Edler, Kadri, Stone, Hall...

[DeluxeMoustache]

Cue the people saying Identity is for the talking heads

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't know what identity they are going for, but they seem be applying some kind of rope-a-dope, opportunistic style. Whether the storm, then jump mistakes. It's a high risk way to play.

The top 2 lines don't play similar styles at all, so hard to know what the team identity is. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though.

[Joborule]

Honest question, does any team that suck/inconsistent not have an identity, or is their identity is simple that they suck?

I think if the questions of if a team has an identity a quarter into the season, you already have the answer for that team already. It's just not a good one.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Honest question, does any team that suck/inconsistent not have an identity, or is their identity is simple that they suck?

I think if the questions of if a team has an identity a quarter into the season, you already have the answer for that team already. It's just not a good one.

Yeah, but I don't think this team should suck. There has been very little roster change since the Flames won the WC only 2 seasons ago. The only differences really are age, which I think should be a net positive for this team. All the top players from then are here still.

Or maybe Gio was such a big part of that team, that his decline has been that catastrophic.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yeah, but I don't think this team should suck. There has been very little roster change since the Flames won the WC only 2 seasons ago. The only differences really are age, which I think should be a net positive for this team. All the top players from then are here still.

Or maybe Gio was such a big part of that team, that his decline has been that catastrophic.

As Jiri said in the blow it up thread, the defense and goaltending is now fine, but the team's offensive production is still a problem, and that's one component that hasn't been significantly altered still.

That 18-19 season is now looking like a anomaly, where the two scoring lines overperformed rather than play to their base level. The offensive core is underwhelming.

[BoLevi]

The flames don't have an identity crisis. It's just that their identity is "mediocre".

[Johnny Makarov]

I can't think of a softer team in the league.

We are pillowy toilet paper soft.

[Northendzone]

I became somewhat interested in the mental side of the game as my son journeyed thru quadrant hockey.

I find it somewhat interesting that the flames seem to be soft/mentally week. Look at their captain - played in the OHL and now the NHL as an undrafted player. Left North America to get better and also because he could not get the deal he wanted from the Flames. And yet here he is today wearing the C, Norris trophy winner and an all star (for what is worth).

Think of how many highly thought of guys washed out while Mark kept grinding.

Why does this kind of fortitude seemingly not trickle down.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't know what identity they are going for, but they seem be applying some kind of rope-a-dope, opportunistic style. Whether the storm, then jump mistakes. It's a high risk way to play.

The top 2 lines don't play similar styles at all, so hard to know what the team identity is. That isn't necessarily a bad thing though.

Ward’s style is actually very aggressive. Very heavy forechecking, heavy pinching which is a debatable style for the team’s personnel. These players maybe lack the attention to detail which leaves them vulnerable for easy counters and wide open neutral zones. This is not a fast team either so they don’t track back quick enough to break up all the odd man rushes. I’ve already established that this collection of players isn’t hard working, so it’s not uncommon to see a lot of half-assed attempts at playing the system so that’s basically shooting yourself in the foot. I remember the Avalanche definitely taking advantage of the Flames aggressiveness in the playoffs, so much so that I think it even surprised coach Jared Bednar.

The Flames might honestly be better playing a more conservative style and taking advantage of turnovers in the neutral zone. Heck, they scored a ton of goals short handed a couple years standing up at the blue line on the PK.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Honest question, does any team that suck/inconsistent not have an identity, or is their identity is simple that they suck?

I think if the questions of if a team has an identity a quarter into the season, you already have the answer for that team already. It's just not a good one.

I think every team in this league has an identity. I can’t imagine a prospective coach going into an interview with no selling point. The Flames under Hartley was hard work. That team would never cheat the work that’s for sure. Even Ottawa and Vancouver share a similar identity. Obviously not this season for the Canucks, but their work ethic has been improving. Once their top players figure it out, this team will be fine. Toronto is highly skilled, Montreal is smaller team, but quick and hard checking.

For the record, I do think the Flames have an identity, but the biggest problem I have is I’m not sure this team is built to play out the identity.

[rotten42]

Flames Identity - Vanilla