this thread really shows the decline of the Flames in the 90's. celebrating their win down on electric avenue, i was naive enough to think this was a team that was going to be good for a long time and there might be future celebrations. Then after a few years and the new "young guns", we have had some bad years. i cant recall, who was on that Reichel line prior to the NHL? It was Reichel, Holik and was it Sykora?
this thread really shows the decline of the Flames in the 90's. celebrating their win down on electric avenue, i was naive enough to think this was a team that was going to be good for a long time and there might be future celebrations. Then after a few years and the new "young guns", we have had some bad years. i cant recall, who was on that Reichel line prior to the NHL? It was Reichel, Holik and was it Sykora?
Reichel was my favorite player for some time. That Canucks playoff game was a crushing defeat, a totally brutal ending. It was all downhill for him with the Flames after that.
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Back when he played we didn't have cable or web access at the time; so getting Flames news / stats were limited to the hockey news, newspaper box scores or when the Flames played the Sharks. So,I have a tiny bit of a soft spot for Reichel based on the following memory:
During the '95 playoff series against the Sharks, I'll always remember driving to an early morning class in San Jose the morning after the game 3 Flames blow-out win.
As part of their morning show, Dj's Lamont and Tonelli on local radio station KSJO (92.3 fm) decided to call the hotel where the Flames were staying. At the time I dialed in the Dj's had just called Zarley Zalapaski, pretending to be mentally disabled fans wanting an autograph to which Zarley quick hung up.
After looking at the score sheet the Dj's then wanted to call German Titov, calling him "tits-off". Upon dialing his room, Robert Reichel actually answered, saying "this is Reichel". The DJ's mentioned that there was a massive plumbing incident happening causing on the toilets on their floor to overflow and that he'd have to evacuate immediately. Robert responded "but I'm still sleeping".
Yeah the team was trying to address character issues - as they had gone through a period of time with a lot of lazy but skilled players.
That's being kind, I think Al Coates was just a bad GM.
Look at his overall piece of work.
Nieuwendyk for Iginla & Millen: Worked out great because Iggy turned out but a prospect and a journeyman center really isn't that great a return for a guy who was a top center in the league. Very lucky it was Iggy and not Todd Harvey who was the other name rumoured.
Housley & Keczmer for Albelin, Hulse, Lemieux: Barf
Reichel for McInnis & Garner: Yuck
Kidd and Roberts for Cassels and Giguere: Would have been better if the next GM kept Giguere, but still not good.
Nylander for Nazarov
Fleury & Dingman for Belak, Corbet, 2nd Rounder, Regehr: Luckily Regehr turned out but still not a great return for a guy who was a top 20 player in the league at the time.
A lot of skilled pieces were sent out with Coates as GM, and in the end we had very little to show for it.
Coates was in a no-win situation. It wasn't about "trying to address character issues"—although it factored into several of the trades you've mentioned (Reichel, Nylander, Kidd)—but the overarching problem was money. The Flames "sent out a lot of skilled pieces with very little to show for it" because they couldn't afford to keep those players. (Even though as compared to today the dollar values are paltry.)
Look back at Coates's "body of work" under the lens of "they don't have the money", and things look quite different.
Nieuwendyk for Iginla & Millen: Nieuwendyk was holding out. Flames went to arbitration in the summer of '95, offering C$1.4M/yr retroactive to the beginning of the lockout-shortened season before. He was making US$900,000 prior. Nieuwendyk asked the arbitrator for US$2.1M/yr. The arbitration award was US$1.7M for '94-'95 and US$1.85M for '95-'96. Nieuwendyk wanted a longer term deal, reported to training camp but refused to participate in exhibition games. After the regular season started he refused to report until he got a minimum three-year deal from the Flames for around $2M/yr. Flames reportedly offered him US$1.8M/yr x 3 yrs; he refused. They had to find a team that would pay him, and would also give them the best return. Dealt him to Dallas because they were willing to pay him (US$11.1M/5 years), and got Millen—to bring back at least some centre depth—and Iginla, the 11th overall pick six months earlier.
Housley & Keczmer for Albelin, Hulse & Lemieux: Housley was a pending unrestricted free agent looking for a big pay raise. Infamously detested playing in Canada and being paid in Canadian dollars. Ended up getting a three-year deal from the Caps that paid him >$2.5M per year; would have made him the highest paid Flame, couldn't afford that. Had they not traded him to Jersey they would have got nothing when he walked in the summer.
Reichel for McInnis & Garner: already wrote at length about Reichel holding out the entire '95-'96 season, and at the time of the trade had 16 goals and 27 assists for 43 points. McInnis had 20 goals and 22 assists (43 points). Does it really seem that bad a deal for a cash-strapped team when Reichel was making $2M a year and McInnis about $550,000? Sure Reichel was more talented but he wasn't going to produce for the Flames, they needed to part ways and he already had a reputation around the league for being disinterested and lazy. Really went to show how much Reichel didn't want to be here when he went on a 19-points-in-12-games tear at the end of the season with the Islanders.
Kidd & Roberts for Cassels & Giguere: sulky goalie who was an absolute disaster and a guy who medical staff recommended never play again, for the Whalers' top centre and goalie prospect. Roberts went on to have a long and fruitful 'second career', but at the time this was a shrewd move. Roberts also specifically asked for a trade to an Eastern Conference team; Flames did him a solid.
Nylander for Nazarov: Nylander demanded a trade in '96, sat out the entire '96-'97 season as an RFA, came back in '97 with a new $700,000/1 yr contract, got hurt late in the '97-'98 season, demanded a trade in the '98 offseason as an RFA again, signed a $775,000/1 yr contract, came back from injury in December, got traded in January for something lest he walk at the end of the season (again). EDIT: And keep in mind the Lightning only got 35 games out of Nylander before they tired of him too and jettisoned him to Chicago for bottom-pairing defenceman Bryan Muir and goon Reid Simpson.
Fleury & Dingman for Belak, Corbet, 2nd Rounder & Regehr: Fleury was leaving Calgary no matter what, so between a choice of getting something or nothing Coates chose 'something'. Not sure what more you'd expect for a pending UFA who was looking for a massive pay raise, the Avalanche lost him for nothing when he signed a 3-year, $21M contract with the Rangers. Ultimately the Avalanche traded a goon (Belak), a third-liner (Corbet), Regehr and a pick for a goon (Dingman) and 33 games of Theo Fleury.
Last edited by timun; 12-09-2020 at 06:00 PM.
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^^ The oddest thing about the Fleury trade was that Regehr wasn't mentioned as part of the deal at the time, it was "Avalanche prospect of the Flames' choosing" which we then speculated, wondering if it was Ramzi Abid, Regehr, Alex Tanguay, Scott Parker or Martin Skoula.
I think that it started to leak out that Skoula and Tanguay weren't options for the Flames to take and regardless, you could argue that the Flames ended up choosing the best one.
It was interesting as I had never before or since seen a trade structured quite that way and to this day, I wonder why it was.
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9:49 mark for it in real time. 10:05 for the Peplinski comment "look at all the net Reichel has".
When that didn't go in, like Nieuwendyk in 1990 vs LA, Nilson in game 6 2004 OT and Leopold with 4 mins to go Game 7 vs Tampa, you knew the Flames weren't going to win.
^^ The oddest thing about the Fleury trade was that Regehr wasn't mentioned as part of the deal at the time, it was "Avalanche prospect of the Flames' choosing" which we then speculated, wondering if it was Ramzi Abid, Regehr, Alex Tanguay, Scott Parker or Martin Skoula.
I think that it started to leak out that Skoula and Tanguay weren't options for the Flames to take and regardless, you could argue that the Flames ended up choosing the best one.
It was interesting as I had never before or since seen a trade structured quite that way and to this day, I wonder why it was.
Getting Iginla and Regehr for Neiuwendyk and fleury is still an amazing return when you sit and reflect on it all. Funny how those trades work long term sometimes.
^^ The oddest thing about the Fleury trade was that Regehr wasn't mentioned as part of the deal at the time, it was "Avalanche prospect of the Flames' choosing" which we then speculated, wondering if it was Ramzi Abid, Regehr, Alex Tanguay, Scott Parker or Martin Skoula.
I think that it started to leak out that Skoula and Tanguay weren't options for the Flames to take and regardless, you could argue that the Flames ended up choosing the best one.
It was interesting as I had never before or since seen a trade structured quite that way and to this day, I wonder why it was.
My recollection was that Tanguay was never given as an option....The Flames wanted him as a choice, but the Avs wouldn't include him.
So it was Abid, Regehr, Parker or Skoula.
I wanted them to pick Skoula.
I heard, I forget from where, that the Flames top 2 were Parker and Regehr.
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In his autobiography, Playing with Fire, Fleury claims that he was offered $16 million over four years by the Flames before the trade, and countered with an offer of $25 million over five years.[61]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoren_Fleury
And I have no doubt that $4M x 4 was the absolute highest the Flames could go. As I said he ended up with a $7M/yr contract. He can wistfully write about wanting to stay now, knowing how disastrous his time in New York ended up being, but there's no way Don Baizley would have let him leave millions on the table to stay in Calgary.
Regher wasn't looking like a better choice then Parker until 2003. Of course Regher has the terrible car accident that set him back, but upon recovery he was a gentle giant. So much so that was trade fodder (to Dallas, I recall) before Sutter started feeding him red meat or something when Darryl arrived in December 2002 and transformed him into the beast he ended up.
I remember liking Reichel in my youth, but actually what I remember him most for was never scoring when we needed him to, and for being offered as compensation (with Ranheim I believe) to convince the Jets not to match our offer to Teemu Selanne.
Flames eliminated in the playoffs in overtime in 1990,1991,1994,1995, and 1996 then wander through the darkness for seven years missing the postseason.
Flames eliminated in the playoffs in overtime in 1990,1991,1994,1995, and 1996 then wander through the darkness for seven years missing the postseason.
