The Legend of Sam Bennett

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Just imagine he was playing this way in another Canadian market. Still happy we sent him to Florida over almost any other market. I am happy he is doing well. If he was doing this on the Leafs?!?! Oh man that would be brutal

Fair but still hilarious because Flames fans will freak out when any ex player does anything anywhere even though every team in the league has former players doing well elsewhere. Every good player on the Flames was either past over by another team or came from another team. Hindsight

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Fair but still hilarious because Flames fans will freak out when any ex player does anything anywhere.

Funny though, is there a Legend of Dougie Hamilton thread somewhere? Even Iggy's love thread died a quick death after he left.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Funny though, is there a Legend of Dougie Hamilton thread somewhere? Even Iggy's love thread died a quick death after he left.

Has there a player who disappointed here and then became the player everyone hoped they would become the minute they put on a new jersey?

- Highest pick in franchise history
- only flashes of greatness here
- gets traded and becomes a top 6 forward on a team that has quickly become one of the elites in the league.

With Iggy everyone knew the time to move on had arrived. Hamilton returned 2 of the Flames best players today and the team had a 20+ point improvement from 10th in the West to 1st.

Easy to see why Bennett’s performance has been a big point of discussion here. Especially as we now have a coach who likely could have got through to him, and he fits a big need on the roster currently as Backlund, Monahan, Dube have proved incapable of being a reliable second line C this season

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's funny to go back and read the first 30-40 pages of this thread.

Pretty much consensus that the Flames got a good return for Bennett.















Then Bennett started hot in Florida and all the complaints started.

And it's fair to complain about how he was leveraged in his time in Calgary, but really it's funny because without the benefit of hindsight the resounding thought was it was a good deal for Calgary.

Yeah, I still stand by my reaction in real time. Bennett had a rough go of things in his last few years in Calgary, other than a few games in the playoffs of course.

What's genuinely surprising is not just how much he rebounded in Florida, but how quickly it happened too. Bottles the mind, so to speak.

[SuperMatt18]

The part that makes me laugh most about Bennett is that there weren't this many vocal supporters when he was here.

There were a handful of posters that would talk about how he was misused during his time as a Flames player while he was here or that his underlying numbers showed potential (GranteedEV, Dammage, ComixZone, myself, sure there were a couple others too) but for the most part people really didn't see much him in. This was especially the case by the time 18-19 and 19-20 had rolled around.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Has there a player who disappointed here and then became the player everyone hoped they would become the minute they put on a new jersey?

- Highest pick in franchise history
- only flashes of greatness here
- gets traded and becomes a top 6 forward on a team that has quickly become one of the elites in the league.

With Iggy everyone knew the time to move on had arrived. Hamilton returned 2 of the Flames best players today and the team had a 20+ point improvement from 10th in the West to 1st.

Easy to see why Bennett’s performance has been a big point of discussion here. Especially as we now have a coach who likely could have got through to him, and he fits a big need on the roster currently as Backlund, Monahan, Dube have proved incapable of being a reliable second line C this season

Funny part is the closest comparable I can think of plays for the Flames: Elias Lindholm.

Lindholm was actually much better for Carolina than Bennett was for the Flames (Lindholm had 4 straight 40 point seasons), but a similar outcome where he was disappointing for the team that drafted him with a top 5 pick, and then got traded to another team where he immediately played well.

And honestly that's the craziest thing with Bennett too. It's not like he went there and took 10 games to adjust with Coach Q, or find chemistry with players.

Verhaeghe got hurt on April 10th which caused the Panthers to break up the Barkov-Duclair-Verhaeghe line that had worked well. The Panthers traded for Bennett on April 12th, and he stepped in right away and played amazing with 3 goals and 5 points in his first 3 games on the line with Huberdeau and Duclair.

Kind of funny too because Verhaeghe is similar in that he wasn't great in Tampa, went to Florida and is now a legitimate top 6 forward (probably even playing better than Bennett).

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's funny to go back and read the first 30-40 pages of this thread.

Pretty much consensus that the Flames got a good return for Bennett.

Then Bennett started hot in Florida and all the complaints started.

And it's fair to complain about how he was leveraged in his time in Calgary, but really it's funny because without the benefit of hindsight the resounding thought was it was a good deal for Calgary.

I don't know that there are really mutually exclusive ideas here.

Given the way everything played out from draft day 2014 to April 12, 2021, we can recognize that it was a pretty good return and reasonable enough resolution to a tough situation.


It's also reasonable to rue how things played out, especially from ~2017-2020. How things have played out for Sam since leaving certainly exacerbates those feelings.

Though I'd argue that even if he had flamed out in Florida (and any subsequent stops), it wouldn't totally invalidate the idea that he was mishandled here (at least to some extent) - ie. there was probably a path for Yakupov to be a useful (albeit underwhelming) NHL player with a different first 4 years...

It was even reasonable to have hope going in to the start of the 2021 season after another promising playoff performance by Sam, but those hopes evaporated pretty quickly after another start in the bottom 6 blender (mostly on Backlund's wing in the first 6 games before trade request - while Simon and Leivo got fairly long looks on the top-line)...pretty tough to see much of a realistic chance to salvage things beyond that given his contract status and the ED.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The part that makes me laugh most about Bennett is that there weren't this many vocal supporters when he was here.

There were a handful of posters that would talk about how he was misused during his time as a Flames player while he was here or that his underlying numbers showed potential (GranteedEV, Dammage, ComixZone, myself, sure there were a couple others too) but for the most part people really didn't see much him in. This was especially the case by the time 18-19 and 19-20 had rolled around.

I spent entirely too much time (...and apparently still do) debating Bennett's role on this team/how he was misused (hi Lanny), and at the end of the day I don't place much blame on Bennett - and I don't place much blame on the players he got played with. I think the way this Bennett thing played out comes down to the reality that we hired a trio of very bad Head Coaches and they hurt not only Bennett's time here, but I also think they hurt other players who are still here. I think had we hired a good head coach back when Hartley was let go that Sean Monahan would have been developed into a much better 200 foot hockey player and that they wouldn't just allow him to outscore his defensive deficiencies that were visible all along. I feel like the short sightedness of unproven head coaches was a detriment to this team. With those unproven (and bad) head coaches solely focused on the "now" with an extreme tunnel vision I believe veterans who didn't earn spots were given spots. I think it's why we saw guys like Kulak, Lomberg, Lazar (yes, Lazar), and most painfully Bennett end up elsewhere and do better.

At the end of the day you can't hire three bad head coaches in a row and not expect there to be consequences.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The part that makes me laugh most about Bennett is that there weren't this many vocal supporters when he was here.

Really? Posters used to complain about that a lot. Mind you certain posters never stop complaining about what's being posted here.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

... we hired a trio of very bad Head Coaches and they hurt not only Bennett's time here, but I also think they hurt other players who are still here.

This generation of Flames will be known for that. Not sure they could've won a Cup even with the best coach, but they should've been annual playoff participants if not contenders.

I know it's not my money, but it seems a waste in hindsight to save money on the coach. It's like we thought we were smarter than everyone else and found all these future coaching masterminds.

Now that Daryl is back, it's fun to ponder what he could have done with Sam given the time.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The part that makes me laugh most about Bennett is that there weren't this many vocal supporters when he was here.

There were a handful of posters that would talk about how he was misused during his time as a Flames player while he was here or that his underlying numbers showed potential (GranteedEV, Dammage, ComixZone, myself, sure there were a couple others too) but for the most part people really didn't see much him in. This was especially the case by the time 18-19 and 19-20 had rolled around.



Funny part is the closest comparable I can think of plays for the Flames: Elias Lindholm.

Lindholm was actually much better for Carolina than Bennett was for the Flames (Lindholm had 4 straight 40 point seasons), but a similar outcome where he was disappointing for the team that drafted him with a top 5 pick, and then got traded to another team where he immediately played well.

And honestly that's the craziest thing with Bennett too. It's not like he went there and took 10 games to adjust with Coach Q, or find chemistry with players.

Verhaeghe got hurt on April 10th which caused the Panthers to break up the Barkov-Duclair-Verhaeghe line that had worked well. The Panthers traded for Bennett on April 12th, and he stepped in right away and played amazing with 3 goals and 5 points in his first 3 games on the line with Huberdeau and Duclair.

Kind of funny too because Verhaeghe is similar in that he wasn't great in Tampa, went to Florida and is now a legitimate top 6 forward (probably even playing better than Bennett).

Your post kind of contrasts the big difference between the way the Flames and Panthers are built. How is it that cast offs like Verhaeghe, Bennett and especially Duclair are doing so well with Panthers when they struggled so mightily previously? Heck, didn’t Duclair get famously crushed by Torts? Something to the tune of “he doesn’t know how to play hockey?” And this a Stanley Cup winning, 2-time Jack Adams award winner who said this.

I think it just underlines how important it is to build a deep, strong core in the NHL. Florida has that and the Flames do not. When you add good players to a great core built with great players, winning happens. Conversely, when you only sign complimentary players and add them to an average core built with mostly average players, it’s funny how often that recipe fails. It probably explains why there are always so many bad contracts and buyouts in this league.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Has there a player who disappointed here and then became the player everyone hoped they would become the minute they put on a new jersey?

Marc Savard, Marty St. Louis?

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The part that makes me laugh most about Bennett is that there weren't this many vocal supporters when he was here.

There were a handful of posters that would talk about how he was misused during his time as a Flames player while he was here or that his underlying numbers showed potential (GranteedEV, Dammage, ComixZone, myself, sure there were a couple others too) but for the most part people really didn't see much him in. This was especially the case by the time 18-19 and 19-20 had rolled around.



Funny part is the closest comparable I can think of plays for the Flames: Elias Lindholm.

Lindholm was actually much better for Carolina than Bennett was for the Flames (Lindholm had 4 straight 40 point seasons), but a similar outcome where he was disappointing for the team that drafted him with a top 5 pick, and then got traded to another team where he immediately played well.

And honestly that's the craziest thing with Bennett too. It's not like he went there and took 10 games to adjust with Coach Q, or find chemistry with players.

Verhaeghe got hurt on April 10th which caused the Panthers to break up the Barkov-Duclair-Verhaeghe line that had worked well. The Panthers traded for Bennett on April 12th, and he stepped in right away and played amazing with 3 goals and 5 points in his first 3 games on the line with Huberdeau and Duclair.

Kind of funny too because Verhaeghe is similar in that he wasn't great in Tampa, went to Florida and is now a legitimate top 6 forward (probably even playing better than Bennett).

IIRC there were some pretty spirited debates and many posters advocating to make a bigger bet on Bennett and finally find out one way or the other. Instead we got to see the Flames put their money on "safe" bets like Leivo/Simon/Ritchie, D Ryan, Neal, Brouwer, etc. Where are those guys now? ALL DEAD!



I'd add Lindholm was similarly odd man out in CAR in terms of slotting with Aho and Staal, though he still got plenty of ice time:
- 3rd among F's in TOI his last year there behind only those two
- actually 2nd behind only Staal the year before,
- and 3rd behind both Staals the year before that

Ryan Strome's production shot up immediately after leaving EDM, and then skyrocketd in his first full season in NYR when he got to play with Panarin.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

IIRC there were some pretty spirited debates and many posters advocating to make a bigger bet on Bennett and finally find out one way or the other. Instead we got to see the Flames put their money on "safe" bets like Leivo/Simon/Ritchie, D Ryan, Neal, Brouwer, etc. Where are those guys now? ALL DEAD!

Simon’s not quite dead yet. He’s playing 3rd line in Pittsburgh, beside Carter.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Your post kind of contrasts the big difference between the way the Flames and Panthers are built. How is it that cast offs like Verhaeghe, Bennett and especially Duclair are doing so well with Panthers when they struggled so mightily previously? Heck, didn’t Duclair get famously crushed by Torts? Something to the tune of “he doesn’t know how to play hockey?” And this a Stanley Cup winning, 2-time Jack Adams award winner who said this.

I think it just underlines how important it is to build a deep, strong core in the NHL. Florida has that and the Flames do not. When you add good players to a great core built with great players, winning happens. Conversely, when you only sign complimentary players and add them to an average core built with mostly average players, it’s funny how often that recipe fails. It probably explains why there are always so many bad contracts and buyouts in this league.

In JQ's 1st season the Cats were a bubble team with tough odds to make the playoffs at the Covid stoppage. Out 3-1 to NYI in the qualy round.

Winning really't started happening for FLA until they made big bets on a bunch of re-treads...and I suppose you can argue JQ having another (albeit weird) year to make an impact.

Kinda hard to say the Barkov/Huberdeau/Ekblad core missed the playoffs 4/5 years, and was likely to narrowly miss again in 2020. I believe Goalie Bob, Weegar, and Vatrano are the only other carryovers from the 19-20 team (might be missing a guy or two on the fringe)...

I guess they did pick 6 good guys to totally rebuild around on the fly...it's not like Bennett dropped into a core with a long history of success.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Your post kind of contrasts the big difference between the way the Flames and Panthers are built. How is it that cast offs like Verhaeghe, Bennett and especially Duclair are doing so well with Panthers when they struggled so mightily previously? Heck, didn’t Duclair get famously crushed by Torts? Something to the tune of “he doesn’t know how to play hockey?” And this a Stanley Cup winning, 2-time Jack Adams award winner who said this.

I think it just underlines how important it is to build a deep, strong core in the NHL. Florida has that and the Flames do not. When you add good players to a great core built with great players, winning happens. Conversely, when you only sign complimentary players and add them to an average core built with mostly average players, it’s funny how often that recipe fails. It probably explains why there are always so many bad contracts and buyouts in this league.

Thing is, a lot of people would have called Duclair, Verhaege and Bennett complementary players before now. And who knew Bob had this in him still? He didn’t look this way in Fla the last couple years.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I don't know that there are really mutually exclusive ideas here.

Given the way everything played out from draft day 2014 to April 12, 2021, we can recognize that it was a pretty good return and reasonable enough resolution to a tough situation.


It's also reasonable to rue how things played out, especially from ~2017-2020. How things have played out for Sam since leaving certainly exacerbates those feelings.

Though I'd argue that even if he had flamed out in Florida (and any subsequent stops), it wouldn't totally invalidate the idea that he was mishandled here (at least to some extent) - ie. there was probably a path for Yakupov to be a useful (albeit underwhelming) NHL player with a different first 4 years...

It was even reasonable to have hope going in to the start of the 2021 season after another promising playoff performance by Sam, but those hopes evaporated pretty quickly after another start in the bottom 6 blender (mostly on Backlund's wing in the first 6 games before trade request - while Simon and Leivo got fairly long looks on the top-line)...pretty tough to see much of a realistic chance to salvage things beyond that given his contract status and the ED.

To be clear I have no objections to people who rue how things played out and believe Bennett was mishandled in his time as a Flame. I actually agree with those points.

I object to the takes that the trade was a poor return, that had we just held on longer it would have worked out, and that Sutter would have turned him around here (there were some signs of that but largely he was still the same guy in 17 games under Sutter).

With him asking for a trade, being a pending RFA, and the expansion draft he needed to be moved.

And it’s not like coach Q had some magic wand to make Bennett better overnight. A big part of what made bennett take off has been the opportunity, but I think Bennett himself has a bigger role in all of this than people think.

IMO he had given up a little bit in Calgary. Part of that was the poor coaches and lack of opportunities in the top 6 but he didn’t seem as engaged and had absolutely no confidence.

He saw he had a fresh start in Florida, got the opportunity with a star player, and didn’t want to let what could have been his last opportunity slip.

I look at Nashville as a similar story this year. Duchene, Johansen, and Granlund all looked done as impact NHLers.

But they get left unprotected in the expansion draft, don’t get selected, and maybe needed a bit of a wake up call to refocus.

The trade was that same wake up call / fresh opportunity for Bennett.

[AustinL_NHL]

Love you, Benny <3

https://twitter.com/user/status/1483633180586364929

[chedder]

Definitely a total organizational failure on the Flames.

[SuperMatt18]

One other thing that hasn’t been talked about much is Bennett has been getting spoon fed offensive minutes in Florida.

Offensive Zone Starts (Faceoff): 72%
Offensive Zone Starts (on the fly): 80% (!)

Him and Huberdeau are 1 & 2 on the team by both metrics, and both rank in the top 10 in the league for guys who have played over 300 minutes.

For comparison no Flames player is above 60% for either number.

So you combine that with playing with really strong offensive players like Huberdeau and you’re going to get some points.

After tonight his on ice shooting percentage this year is 13.04% which is 11th in the league. His rookie year was the only year it was above 8% in Calgary.

https://twitter.com/miketgould/statu...553777668?s=21

Flush o-zone starts and a bit of shooting percentage luck and he’s looking great.

[dino7c]

Panthers win 6-2 without Bennett
Panthers lose 5-1 with him

Just posting stats

[tvp2003]

I think my favourite memory of Sam Bennett was that one time he sold sunglasses for $19.99.

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