The Tesla Thread

[Hack&Lube]

The post 2022 Models have heat pumps which help quite a bit but heat pump efficiency drops off dramatically after -15 or -20 degrees.

The Teslas also have scheduled departure so if I'm at a restaurant or something, I'll estimate when I'll be leaving and the car will slowly warm up the cabin, defrost, condition the battery etc. to be ready to go when I'm ready to go. That consumes energy as well. Its not necessary but it's for comfort.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't think it would max out. As temps drop, the battery needs to be heated more, requiring more energy. Same with cabin heat. You are just using more % of your battery for heat generation vs movement.

Yeah, I get that. Half range makes sense for let's say -10 to -20. But I'm curious to know if it could dip even below that (ie: 1/3 range) if we're dealing with -30C or -40C or if it'd still be half range.

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

The post 2022 Models have heat pumps which help quite a bit but heat pump efficiency drops off dramatically after -15 or -20 degrees.

The Teslas also have scheduled departure so if I'm at a restaurant or something, I'll estimate when I'll be leaving and the car will slowly warm up the cabin, defrost, condition the battery etc. to be ready to go when I'm ready to go. That consumes energy as well. Its not necessary but it's for comfort.

Fair, but that's like auto car starter in a car. You know you're basically "idling" your car to be comfortable and that uses up "range" but it's a little different than how far you can drive from 100% to 10% if all other factors are unchanged.

I'm more curious to know if a Tesla owner typically drove 400 km per max charge, could it dip down to only 125-150km per max charge due to the energy required to heat when it's -30 or -40C vs anecdotally around 200-225 km per max charge estimates if it was closer to -10 to -20C.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I'm more curious to know if a Tesla owner typically drove 400 km per max charge, could it dip down to only 125-150km per max charge due to the energy required to heat when it's -30 or -40C vs anecdotally around 200-225 km per max charge estimates if it was closer to -10 to -20C.

You are aren't far off. I'd say half the range at -40.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Cybertruck inventory will be limited for a very long time.

Thank god. Maybe people will come to their senses by the time they are widely available.

[Azure]

Half the range in cold weather is bonkers. Not sure why anyone who lives in cold weather climate would go for that when you can buy a hybrid or fuel efficient vehicle where that isn't any issue.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Azure

Half the range in cold weather is bonkers. Not sure why anyone who lives in cold weather climate would go for that when you can buy a hybrid or fuel efficient vehicle where that isn't any issue.

I still feel much more secure, safe, and reliable in the EV everday than my Diesel which has belts, fluids, glow plugs, valves, pumps, turbo inlets, oils, etc. that could (and have) all gone wrong in the winter. Most of my co-workers have had cold weather issues with their regular cars in the past 2 weeks and I feel like I'm in a space ship where everything works - i just have less range. That's no problem since I'm only commuting to work and not trying to drive to Banff.

[Azure]

But that is short distance stuff, or a trip where you know you've planned out having only half the range & needing a charger.

I get the point about the EV having less issue otherwise, but on a mass scale we can't have EVs for everyone, where all of a sudden millions of people get literally 50% range during the winter. Think about the added strain to the electrical system and how we'd have to plan to handle that.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Azure

But that is short distance stuff, or a trip where you know you've planned out having only half the range & needing a charger.

I get the point about the EV having less issue otherwise, but on a mass scale we can't have EVs for everyone, where all of a sudden millions of people get literally 50% range during the winter. Think about the added strain to the electrical system and how we'd have to plan to handle that.

If the federal government keeps pushing for EV adoption by the 2030s, they need to push for increased nuclear adoption across the country. That's the only way I see.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Azure

Half the range in cold weather is bonkers. Not sure why anyone who lives in cold weather climate would go for that when you can buy a hybrid or fuel efficient vehicle where that isn't any issue.

If you have a vehicle where you're driving 30km to and from work then plug it back in at home for 90% of its use, it makes a lot of sense regardless of the range reduction.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Azure

But that is short distance stuff, or a trip where you know you've planned out having only half the range & needing a charger.

I get the point about the EV having less issue otherwise, but on a mass scale we can't have EVs for everyone, where all of a sudden millions of people get literally 50% range during the winter. Think about the added strain to the electrical system and how we'd have to plan to handle that.

There will not be some super strain on the electrical system. That's been discussed ad nauseum and it's not a concern to any grid planner

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206325275017413

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

If the federal government keeps pushing for EV adoption by the 2030s, they need to push for increased nuclear adoption across the country. That's the only way I see.

100% EVs would increase the total electricity demand by approximately 10%. And EV charging demand is perhaps the most flexible demand we have

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

100% EVs would increase the total electricity demand by approximately 10%. And EV charging demand is perhaps the most flexible demand we have

Where does this 10% number come from.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Tuco

Where does this 10% number come from.

https://www.ey.com/en_ca/news/2019/1...e-road-by-2030

Rapid adoption could also cause an 11% spike in Canadian electricity demand, requiring utilities to make significant investments in existing grid infrastructure to allow consumers to charge cars at home and in public spaces. Distribution network upgrades would also be required to improve power transmission across the country, including to rural areas.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206327128838212

1 million EVs would increase Alberta's total consumption by 3.5%

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

https://www.ey.com/en_ca/news/2019/1...e-road-by-2030

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206327128838212

1 million EVs would increase Alberta's total consumption by 3.5%

Peak load is what matters. If everyone charged from 10-4 in the morning it would have almost no affect. If people charge in peak hours it is much greater. Total consumption doesn’t really matter as the change in demand.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GGG

Peak load is what matters. If everyone charged from 10-4 in the morning it would have almost no affect. If people charge in peak hours it is much greater. Total consumption doesn’t really matter as the change in demand.

Yes and no. Firstly, everyone will not charge their cars at the same time. There's lots of data already and that will not be the case. Secondly, it's literally the most flexible demand we have. Research shows even a small incentive gets big results for moving charging to off peak

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206332308844842

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206333617414561

[para transit fellow]

Originally Posted by Azure

Half the range in cold weather is bonkers. Not sure why anyone who lives in cold weather climate would go for that when you can buy a hybrid or fuel efficient vehicle where that isn't any issue.

When making the comparison, we should remember that Gas/diesel vehicles also suffer some range loss in bitter cold (15 - 30%).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by para transit fellow

When making the comparison, we should remember that Gas/diesel vehicles also suffer some range loss in bitter cold (15 - 30%).

Sure, but when people by EV's one of the key numbers they look at is range. It's very important. So when it's 30-50% less than that, it does matter because a "fill" in cold weather also takes a long time. How many people look up the range of a gas vehicle before buying? Very few, because a fill is 5 minutes.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

If you have a vehicle where you're driving 30km to and from work then plug it back in at home for 90% of its use, it makes a lot of sense regardless of the range reduction.

Well for that scenario I'd prefer a PHEV. 30km is easily covered by the small battery range and you have an ICE for longer trips. Best of both worlds.

That said, we're a 1 car household. If we were a 2 car household I could see how an EV would work as one of our cars.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by kevman

Well for that scenario I'd prefer a PHEV. 30km is easily covered by the small battery range and you have an ICE for longer trips. Best of both worlds.

That said, we're a 1 car household. If we were a 2 car household I could see how an EV would work as one of our cars.

I have a PHEV. While you have the convenience of both worlds, you trade that for a worse gas and electric engine. You now have maintenance and reliability concerns for both drivetrains plus the interchange. I'm still happy at the moment with mine, but the next vehicle is BEV without a doubt

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Yes and no. Firstly, everyone will not charge their cars at the same time. There's lots of data already and that will not be the case. Secondly, it's literally the most flexible demand we have. Research shows even a small incentive gets big results for moving charging to off peak

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206332308844842

https://twitter.com/user/status/1748206333617414561

We literally just had a warning about lowering electricity usage during a cold snap and one of the suggestions was to tell people to stop plugging in block warmers and other things. It's not unreasonable to say adding a million EVs rapidly could strain the existing power grid system. But by the time we add that many EVs, I assume we would have also upgraded the power grid system a bit as well.

But the truth is probably in the middle. By the time we adopt 1 million EVs, I assume we would have also spent the time to upgrade the grid to be able to handle the addition of 1 million EVs. Both side IMO are too extreme. I don't believe that it's unreasonable to believe that at certain points during an Alberta cold snap, more than half to 3/4+ EVs are all simultaneously plugged in to deal with the reduced range and warming required for EVs during that cold snap causing significant peak spikes. But I also believe that the grid could be upgraded to handle those peak spikes a bit better by the time we add those 1 million EVs in about 6 years.

I don't think it's also unreasonable to assume that during a cold snap, 70-80% of those additional 1 million EVs are always plugged in to address lowered range etc. during an Alberta cold snap. But again, I'd assume the grid could be upgraded to handle that.