[PGT] Preds 3 Flames 2

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Brodieyouevenlift

Everyone analyzing in-depth every coaches strategies, strengths and weaknesses. But every year, every coach, it's the SAME issue. No matter who the coach is, they're never ready to compete. Every year, new season, new coach, but still the same seemingly apathetic attitude from the team. At this point I'm convinced Scotty Bowman at his prime couldn't motivate this core.

And here we go again. Maybe if we get Scotty Bowman we'll find out but since we always get coaches that go on to either toil away in Edmonton or never coach again, we'll never know.

[mrdonkey]

I’m all for riding it out with “Tank Commander” Ward at this point.

[Poe969]

Its both, they need to get an actual qualified coach but still need to gut this team. Most of the players are too far gone imo. This whole thing needs to be blown up.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

oh my god are we seriously having a coaching conversation?

Come ON you guys.

There's only two things happening here:

1) The team is badly constructed
2) Gaudreau isn't playing god-tier hockey in order to cover for it.

That's IT. That's the ENTIRE problem.

The Flames are rotating Buddy Robinson, Dillon Dube, Andrew Mangiapane and Toby Freakin' Reider through their top 6 lineup because they tried Backlund there for 20 games and he scored 3 goals.

None of this is a coaching issue.

THEY ALREADY FIRED THE COACH

I know it's a hopeless thing to consider, but what if a team with one playoff game win in the last 4 years is actually just a ####ty team?

I think everybody acknowledges this team needs some changes, especially to the core....

Isn't very possible that Ward also isnt the guy.

Hope to see an upgrade in coach and some new faces on the ice next season.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Its both, they need to get an actual qualified coach but still need to gut this team. Most of the players are too far gone imo. This whole thing needs to be blown up.

Honestly, the whole franchise needs serious changes. Ken King has presided over decades of ineptitude matched or exceeded only by the clown show in Edmonton. The truth is that the Flames franchise is one of the very least successful franchises in recent NHL history. No bueno.

[Karl]

Move out at least one core guy (trade Backlund and/or Hamonic) and overhaul the bottom 6.

New coach ain't happening this year.

Maybe next year. But even if the team could use a new coach, the coach is not the main problem. The players are. The fact that this team has gone through a lot of coaches (some of whom have had previous success, e.g: Hartley and Peters) in a short time tells me it's the players that are a bigger problem.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I think everybody acknowledges this team needs some changes, especially to the core....

Isn't very possible that Ward also isnt the guy.

Hope to see an upgrade in coach and some new faces on the ice next season.

Yeah, it’d be nice if the issues with the team could be fixed with one move. Whether it was just trading Johnny, or just hiring a new head coach...but the team has a culture issue. That’s not so easy to fix.

I’m fairly baffled that we’ve been as loyal to certain players over the last half decade as we have. This commitment issue, the whole not rising to the occasion - it has been around for Treliving’s entire time as a GM, and it’s becoming even more pronounced as times goes along.

This organization needs a culture shock. Perhaps it comes in the form of removing a part of the leadership group (trading Backlund?), perhaps it comes in the form of hiring an incredibly strong coach (Gallant takes over the room), or perhaps it takes sweeping changes across the board.

This team has been far too conservative for far too long. Complacency has yet again settled in.

[CroFlames]

When you look at the top teams who don't win the Cup (Caps come to mind) they make changes every year.

Changes need to be made with this roster if this club wants to win, it's as simple as that.

You shouldn't make panic moves to save this season, but you can still make sensible trades and acquisitions to get better. There are some attractive pieces on this team, and some hockey trades are what is needed. If nothing is done at the trade dead line, and especially during the off season, it will be very disappointing.

Just don't do another Hamonic trade where you trade your first and proceed to miss the playoffs.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

He's not upset they aren't executing his system. He's upset that they aren't executing the most basic aspect in hockey.............compete.

And yet he rolls all four lines and his healthy scratch decisions are arbitrary and shows favouritism to certain veterans no matter how poorly they compete. These are not tactics to get your players to compete.

Skate hard to make plays. Hit someone. Take a hit to make a play. Battle for loose pucks. Skate hard off the ice instead of coasting.

All valid - but you're never going to have all 18 skaters competing like that. So you need to manage the game and pay attention to who's going on a given night.

There are people doing that lately. Guys like Mangiapane and Bennett. And what's their reward for it? Watching guys like Lucic, Gaudreau, and Monahan look listless?

I mean, these are all just so simple. This is stuff hockey players learn at a very young age. He's not asking his guys to execute some tough new system that is hard to implement.

He's asking players to play an unsuccessful style of dump and chase hockey. This style tends to kill players' motivations because they rightfully do not believe it is a path to success.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Its both, they need to get an actual qualified coach but still need to gut this team. Most of the players are too far gone imo. This whole thing needs to be blown up.

A ####ty coach and ####ty players. Quite the team the Flames have built.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

He's asking players to play an unsuccessful style of dump and chase hockey. This style tends to kill players' motivations because they rightfully do not believe it is a path to success.

So what happened last season when this slide of Johnny and others started, under a different coach?

They were scoring a ton of goals, first in the West, Johnny was racking up points. Then he, and others, started this slide at around the mid point of the season. And it went on for the rest of the season, they got demolished in the playoffs and here we are in the same boat, a continuation of poor play and poor compete level.

I've said many times I don't really care about Geoff Ward being the coach, if the Flames want to hire someone else to take his place, great. But from what we've seen from the Flames core, specifically Gaudreau, for about a year now under 2 different coaches I'd put the amount of blame on Geoff Ward and his coaching at right around 0%.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

So what happened last season when this slide of Johnny and others started, under a different coach?



They were scoring a ton of goals, first in the West, Johnny was racking up points. Then he, and others, started this slide at around the mid point of the season. And it went on for the rest of the season, they got demolished in the playoffs and here we are in the same boat, a continuation of poor play and poor compete level.



I've said many times I don't really care about Geoff Ward being the coach, if the Flames want to hire someone else to take his place, great. But from what we've seen from the Flames core, specifically Gaudreau, for about a year now under 2 different coaches I'd put the amount of blame on Geoff Ward and his coaching at right around 0%.

I was with you until the last part. It’s certainly higher than 0. Coaching isn’t the only problem but it’s most certainly part of a bigger problem.

The argument of “this core has quit on multiple coaches, so it can’t be the coach” rests on a faulty assumption that at least one of those coaches should have produced results with a different core. Just because you change guys doesn’t mean the position has improved.

Not one of the Flames’ carousel of bench bosses has gone on to do anything in the NHL, and only one has ever had any success in his entire career, nearly 20 years ago with a loaded team that could never exist today. It’s been a consistent issue despite multiple opportunities to upgrade, which lies at the feet of the GM.

Anyway, back to the original point: Ward does deserve blame for the team looking lost, unmotivated, and without structure. But the players (most notably the core) also bear responsibility. Both positions demand change and are not worth building around. Ride out the season, pray for some draft lottery mojo, and then rip the whole bloody thing down.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Peters won the West last season and was a coach of the year finalist, I'd consider that a success. Sustained......no, but when the players bought in and played with some intensity they were a pretty good team. But they quit on him too, just like they haven't given a damn consistently under the current coach.

It's an apple and cart argument........do you hire, yet another, coach and hope that a new voice and system wakes these guys up, or do you change the players up (and still possibly hire a new coach as well)? I'm in the latter group. It's not a systems thing to slowly skate back to the bench, or give the puck away, or lose puck battles.....these are all simple basic hockey plays we should be seeing every night.

That's why my blame on Ward is around 0%. If the players were putting in the effort they could, and should, put in and the team was still struggling I'd be more inclined to see a new coach and system. These guys have been consistently inconsistent for about a year now, under two different coaches. I'm just done with waiting for guys like JG to put in the most basic of efforts. Combine that with Treliving saying he was giving this group one more shot this year after the debacle in the playoffs and I think we're going to see some major changes in the summer, including a new coach. It's overdue and the players have brought this on themselves.

[Jimdon]

Hire Harley, the team becomes the 'find a way Flames' fans celebrate, Hartley wins the Jack Adam's. Next year Flames suck, miss the platoffs and Hartley is fired. Flames hire GG, was not a good coach but team repeats one in one out playoff results. Hire Peter's, Flames have historically great season, fans celebrate. Next year, Flames suck and Peter's is fired for off ice issues. Ward takes over, Flames record improves significantly then falls off.
What proven coach would be excited about leading this group.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

A ####ty coach and ####ty players. Quite the team the Flames have built.

Quite the pity party some of you having going on here.
The team is doing poorly, but if handled correctly and unlike some of the previous down times for the organization - there's a lot to work with here.
I think the organization is in better shape asset wise than it has been for much of its history. It is critical those assets are maximized now.
This summer is so important.
But posts like this one - just such a downer.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And yet he rolls all four lines and his healthy scratch decisions are arbitrary and shows favouritism to certain veterans no matter how poorly they compete. These are not tactics to get your players to compete.

Lol it sounds like the second coming of Glen Gulutzan