[Trade] Kevin Hayes to Philly for a 5th round pick

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Once Philly makes you that offer, it’s not going away July 1. I don’t understand the stress myself.

These trades don’t seem to happen in other sports. But the NHL isn’t known for being avant garde exactly.

Actually offers do go away sometimes in early July. If a player doesn’t sign in a certain window it may force the team to pivot, go a different direction, make an offer to a different player which necessitates pulling the offer from the original player.

We’ve seen it happen. Guys wait a few days into July find out offers get pulled, fire their agent and sign later for less than they could have.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Actually offers do go away sometimes in early July. If a player doesn’t sign in a certain window it may force the team to pivot, go a different direction, make an offer to a different player which necessitates pulling the offer from the original player.

We’ve seen it happen. Guys wait a few days into July find out offers get pulled, fire their agent and sign later for less than they could have.

Sure but that's not the situation. Why sign an offer in June when you can wait until free agency begins and know your options? Remember the NHL allows for a courting period pre July 1.

Are you suggesting the Flyers would make him an offer and pull it before free agency even begins?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sure but that's not the situation. Why sign an offer in June when you can wait until free agency begins and know your options? Remember the NHL allows for a courting period pre July 1.

Are you suggesting the Flyers would make him an offer and pull it before free agency even begins?

Rumor has it he really wants to play in Philly. It is sort of a shrewd way to go about things. Trade likely a nothing pick to get him. Make him an average to below average offer stating its on the table till June 23rd.

Not a bad way to go about things. But I'm not saying thats what they are doing.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Rumor has it he really wants to play in Philly. It is sort of a shrewd way to go about things. Trade likely a nothing pick to get him. Make him an average to below average offer stating its on the table till June 23rd.

Not a bad way to go about things. But I'm not saying thats what they are doing.

If he really wants to play in Philly, you gave up a pick for nothing. Pulling the offer a week before free agency is most certainly not bargaining in good faith. It’s trying to take advantage of someone.

[Rando]

Sometimes peace of mind is worth a 5th round pick. Get him under contract, one less (major) thing to do at free agency so you can focus on other things.

It's a very small price to analyze too much.

[GioforPM]

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

Jimmy Vesey

[Swayze11]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

Dan Hamhuis

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

Mark Messier (apparently. Peaked my interest with your post).

On June 30, 2003 Mark Messier's rights were traded (from the rangers) to the San Jose Sharks for a fourth round draft pick. This draft pick ended up being used to select Rochester, NY native and future Rangers captain Ryan Callahan. The Sharks held his rights for just a few hours as he would eventually go on to re-sign with the Rangers as a free agent.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Dan Hamhuis

Yeah, looking at that, it happened twice in the same period. His rights went from Nashville to Philly to Pittsburgh and then he went UFA and signed with the Canucks. Seeing as how he signed a 6 year deal with the Canucks, if he signed the same term with Pittsburgh he'd perhaps have two rings.

That said, Shero said later that, if he hadn't traded for those rights, he'd have wasted time talking to Hamhuis on UFA day and he'd have missed out on moving quickly to sign Michalek and Martin (leading to their cup wins). So he said trading the third rounder was worth it. I wonder if that's just backfilling though.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

Ehrhoff

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Ehrhoff

Jimmy Vesey. Dealt to Buffalo after being drafted by Nashville, eventually signed with New York.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Can anyone recall a situation where a team acquired the neg rights like this but then failed to cut a deal before the guy went UFA?

There’s lots of examples of that. Don’t recall them all off the top of my head but it happens regularly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

There’s lots of examples of that. Don’t recall them all off the top of my head but it happens regularly.

See that's pretty crazy to me. I'd want to know what was already being demanded by the player.

[sureLoss]

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
Sounds like Kevin Hayes was impressed by his visit with #Flyers. Money talks, so we’ll see, but they have work to do to entice him not to go to market. My understanding is PHI isn’t No. 1 on his list at the moment. That can change. I believe he’d be intrigued by #CBJ and #Coyotes

[Toonage]

If Hayes doesn't choose Philadelphia thats going to screw up the narrative that was starting to sprout of Johnny following his buddy back home. Now what are we going to (prematurely) panic about?

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Mark Messier (apparently. Peaked my interest with your post).

I don’t believe they acquired Messier with the purposes of signing him.

It was a now closed loophole in the CBA dealing with free agent compensation.

If he re-signed with the Rangers they would receive no compensation, but if he resigned with a different team the Rangers would get a 3rd or a 2nd round pick, I forget which exactly.

So in essence the Sharks received the compensation & traded a 4th round pick for a 3rd round pick. The Rangers received a 4th round pick as they wouldn’t have received anything for re-signing Messier.

The Leafs & the Flames made a similar deal with CuJo.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Frank Seravalli @frank_seravalli
Sounds like Kevin Hayes was impressed by his visit with #Flyers. Money talks, so we’ll see, but they have work to do to entice him not to go to market. My understanding is PHI isn’t No. 1 on his list at the moment. That can change. I believe he’d be intrigued by #CBJ and #Coyotes

Had the chance to chat with Kevin Hayes on the weekend I saw him and Hanifin out in Old Town Scottsdale at one of the bars there. Can't blame him for being interested in Arizona that whole district is awesome. I can confirm that unfortunately he's not all that interested in signing with Calgary despite my ace 2 minute sales pitch. Nice guy though.

[Ped]

I don’t believe they acquired Messier with the purposes of signing him.

It was a now closed loophole in the CBA dealing with free agent compensation.

If he re-signed with the Rangers they would receive no compensation, but if he resigned with a different team the Rangers would get a 3rd or a 2nd round pick, I forget which exactly.

So in essence the Sharks received the compensation & traded a 4th round pick for a 3rd round pick. The Rangers received a 4th round pick as they wouldn’t have received anything for re-signing Messier.

The Leafs & the Flames made a similar deal with CuJo.

Close, but iirc it was actually the Rangers wouldn't receive compensation because of their payroll or whatever they used. So they would trade him to a team that wasn't going to sign him, but would get the compensatory pick. So the Rangers would get something and the middle-man team would get something.


Same thing happened with Richter.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Dan Hamhuis

twice, iirc.