[News] Ottawa Senators to remove 1,500 Seats to increase Sellouts

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

These two things are not connected. As with anything else, the Flames will set beer prices to a price that they believe reaches the ideal point of the supply vs demand curve. If lower prices would sell enough beer to make more money, they'd do it. If higher prices meant less beer sold but higher gross revenue, they'd do that too.

Likewise, ticket prices. When demand is high, prices go up. Lower demand has the reverse effect. Of note in Ottawa, the majority of their upper bowl for tomorrow night's game vs the Devils is $40 or less with a pile of tickets - including entire rows - priced at $27. Troubling for Ottawa: even those aren't close to selling out. Looks like the Sens are royally taking advantage of Leaf fans on Saturday though. The same seats are listed at 3-4x as much. And that game is still nearly a sell-out.

Not connected?

I understand supply and demand curves, thanks, but I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that, if it wasn't included in HRR, beer prices wouldn't be $10.25

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, it is the profits, I typed that out too quickly.

Again, the point is the same though.

Edit: wait - is it the profits? Maybe it is the revenue - I can't remember now.

I'm pretty sure you were right the first time, I thought it was 50-50 of Hockey related revenues.

Basically 50% of all revenues are earmarked for player salaries so the rest of the owner's operating expenses and profits come from their 50%.

[Resolute 14]

Also, specific to Ottawa's situation, the Phoenix pay system fiasco would certainly still be having an effect. Especially on season ticket sales, as finding a way to spend $30 a ticket once in a while is one thing. But for many of those people, even the cheapest season ticket ($924) could have become too much to ask for some former STHes.

[Enoch Root]

Anyway, it's my fault for bringing the HRR discussion into this thread - too many different threads on the arena topic these days - so I am going to stop here.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not connected?

I understand supply and demand curves, thanks, but I am going to go out on a limb and suggest that, if it wasn't included in HRR, beer prices wouldn't be $10.25

And I'm going to tell you that you are as wrong as Gary Bettman was when he tried to claim the salary cap would result in lower ticket prices.

[getbak]

The thing that constantly annoys me is when people say that they have to keep increasing ticket prices to keep up with the rising cap. No, you don't. The cap is linked to revenue. The cap goes up because you keep putting prices up, not the other way around.

[White Out 403]

A poster said something really smart earlier about charging kids less. Kids under 5 free, under 10 50% off, etc.

But no, let's really get every dollar possible hey?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Its the micro-economics of events. Scarcity helps drives demand for season tickets, which ensures higher revenues because STH's offload a lot risk for the organization and take both good games and bad games. Its a weird phenomenon on the surface, but its true. The corollary is thatwhen a team is no longer selling out games, a vicious cycle of declining attendance and season ticket holders can take hold - and its hard to stop it.

If the stadium is near full or better (a waiting list, or hot house for example), a person with season tickets is less likely to get rid of season tickets for multiple reasons. First, he can get a fair price if he needs to resell tickets. Second, if he gives up his rights, he might not be able to get back in line when he wants to or get as good of seats.

In contrast, if the Stadium is not full...there is a huge incentive to just cherry pick the best games, only support teams during successful seasons, and buy single game tickets at the walk-up window.


Walk up buyers
Too cold outside? Walk-up buyers stay at home, and attendance suffers
Phoenix in town? Walk-up buyers stay at home, and attendance suffers
Team off to poor start? Walk-up buyers stay at home, and attendance suffers
Team out of the playoffs? Walk-up buyers stay at home, and attendance suffers

Season ticket holders
Too cold outside? Tickets are a sunk cost; Senators get paid either way
Phoenix in town? Tickets are a sunk cost; Senators get paid either way
Team off to poor start? Tickets are a sunk cost; Senators get paid either way
Team out of the playoffs? Tickets are a sunk cost; Senators get paid either way

So yes...decreasing available season tickets increases the demand for season tickets. If the flames only had 5000 seats in the dome, there would be a lot more people who would want season tickets...

Not to mention, if there are 1500 empty seats it's harder to raise prices. By having a stronger demand for available seating they have leverage for raising them.

[BlackRedGold25]

There are two issues that haven't been mentioned.

One, Eugene Melnyk has been publicly discussing how the proposed new arena just outside of downtown Ottawa is badly needed. As usual with the NHL, they don't mind denigrating their product in order for a long term benefit. When you have the owner of the team complaining about the current arena, why would fans want to spend significant money somewhere that even the owner doesn't like?

Two, Melnyk might be staging these attendance "issues" as leverage for a better deal with the proposed new rink. The playoff tickets that didn't sell this past spring were mostly the cheap seats and I've heard that they weren't available until something like the actual day of the game. People have tried to contact the Senators for season tickets and it has taken over a week for anyone to get back to them. He's also jacked up parking to $20 when it was only $11 a year or two ago.

[GullFoss]

https://www.theathletic.com/129411/2...ng-attendance/

Originally Posted by the athletic

“To be perfectly honest, I almost think that the season-ticket model is broken. The resale market is so easy, even for old people like me, to access that I can buy tickets quickly and safely. And even if the Canucks became a super popular ticket again, like I had to pay double the face, how many games do I really want to go to? Five? Ten? Plus the playoffs? I'd still come out ahead.”

Originally Posted by the athletic

In fact, at Showtime Tickets in Vancouver, CEO Mario Livich claims that over 90 per cent of Canucks tickets are now being sold for less than face value. “Bottom line is the Canucks are charging too much for the seats,” Livich told me. ”

“It's a delicate balancing act for them,” he said. “The Canucks are asking for higher than market prices. That's why there are empty seats. So how can they adjust the prices? That's the big question. Because they don't want to upset the season-ticket holder who pays X dollars. If they start selling tickets beside the season-ticket holder for less than X, they're going to get some backlash.”

Originally Posted by the athletic

Now, obviously, pro sports has changed a lot since I first started going to games in the '80s. For that matter, so has Vancouver. But I distinctly remember the cheapest ticket being around $10 while the most expensive was about $20. In today's dollars, that's $21.46 and $42.93, respectively.

Looking ahead to the upcoming Devils game, the cheapest seat is $41.75 and the most expensive is $164.75. And that's to watch New Jersey. For the higher profile teams, the prices are even higher.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And I'm going to tell you that you are as wrong as Gary Bettman was when he tried to claim the salary cap would result in lower ticket prices.

Nope.

This is a monopoly pricing situation. And if you change the profitability ratio by eliminating the HRR split, you move the curve and change the optimal price point.

[Corral]

For me, the NHL game is not very exciting or interesting to watch anymore as a spectator. Its been said many times over, but the speed and strategies of the game now mean there are bursts of excitement, but for the most part the action is along the boards and in the neutral zone, and often good plays happen too quickly to follow live. Watching players position themselves without the puck is interesting once and a while, but that's about it. As far as entertainment for the your dollars, i find the NHL way overpriced.

So i'm a fan, but i prefer to watch on TV. And if i want to make it an event, i go to the sports bar. Hence no surprise to me that teams are finding themselves with empty seats.

[BlackRedGold25]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nope.

This is a monopoly pricing situation. And if you change the profitability ratio by eliminating the HRR split, you move the curve and change the optimal price point.

Which curve?

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by BlackRedGold25

Which curve?

Which monopoly? Calgary real estate version?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nope.

This is a monopoly pricing situation. And if you change the profitability ratio by eliminating the HRR split, you move the curve and change the optimal price point.

So you think that if they started to suddenly make more profit on a per beer basis they will lower the price? That seems a little outlandish. They are already at a point they deem consumers will still purchase enough to maximize their profits.. Why would they then drop the price when they will just being seeing more profits?