2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Toonage]

Going to be fun/fascinating looking back on all this when Colorado finally makes the deal.

Even funnier if it ends with a Duchene extension with the Avs.

[RedHawk12]

I doubt Treliving would have given up what he gave up for Hamonic if he ended up in Colorado. Number of reasons for this: trading with a conference rival, driving up the market price for secondary scorers (which is what I think Duchene is), etc. Chances are Treliving would have just targeted another defenseman like Brodin, Scandella or Demers. I think the Hamonic trade was a trade made for Calgary-NYI only.

Which is why I think a three way trade where Hamonic ends up in Calgary and Sakic gets 2 1sts and 2 2nds was never going to happen, ever. Sakic probably passed on the deal because he would have been stuck with Hamonic and that's a player that's out of their rebuilding age range.

Just my guess.

As for acquiring Duchene, I think something along the lines of Fox, Gilles and a 2019 1st would get it done. I don't know if I would do it, having the likes of Duchene, Bennett and Tkachuk's contracts all expire at the same time. I just don't know if Smith is the goalie we can trust to put all our chips in for the next 2 years.

[dustygoon]

Surprised they didn't mention sharks as Duchene destination. This is kind of situation from which Wilson has built his team.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'm quite high on Fox and Andersson. They are definitely quality pieces. Sounds like our assessment of them is very similar.

I just don't think Sakic can trade Duchene for two prospects who look like probable 2nd pairing dmen. Fox isn't NHL ready. Andersson is pretty close IMO.

I think Sakic has to get a higher calibre young piece back. I think he wants a probable 1st line young player or a probable top pairing dman young player. I don't think in this case two 2nd pairing dmen prospects and a 1st is equivalent.

It definitely sounds like Sakic is going after a D-man, and rumours had him hunting around Hanifin at one point, and now we're hearing of Ottawa turning away with Ceci as Sakic's target. With Mackinnon, Jost, and Rantanen up front, I think they've got their #1 and #2 centres in place, alongside their #1 RW, it makes sense to turn to the goalie position and defensive group.

I think Fox could be a huge "win" for Sakic, ditto with Andersson.

I also don't think Sakic is going to stop at Duchene. Going off rumblings, I'll be surprised if Landeskog and Barrie are both Avs come July 1st 2018, and would bet we'll see Colorado pick high in 2018 and 2019, as well as multiple times in both of those 1st rounds.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If I were Sakic, I'd look at rebuilding my blueline as quick as possible with high quality young pieces. Sakic has a lot of nice players up front, but lacks young defencemen and prospects, alongside a high quality goalie prospect. The Flames COULD offer both.

I'd then realize no one is giving me a Noah Hanifin for 2 years of Matt Duchene, and start thinking of how else I could do it. No one is trading a top pairing d-man in his early 20s for Matt Duchene (...probably the reason Duchene is still an Av), so the best option is to go after guys who look poised to step into that role. I think Fox fits that bill, and I think Andersson could also be the foundation for a 2nd pairing.

Makar, Johnson, Andersson, Fox, Barrie (although he's also rumoured to be on his way out of town) is a very promising blue line.

You've got to also remember that Sakic did a deal similar to what you're proposing while getting higher touted prospects backs when he traded O'Reilly for Grigorenko (top 15 pick) and Zadorov (top 15 pick). That deal looks like a horrible deal a couple years later.

Now he's going to trade Duchene for Fox (3rd rounder) and Andersson (2nd rounder)? How is he going to sell to ownership and fans that this deal will work out better than O'Reilly deal? Fox and Andersson are not household names in COL. Fox and Andersson are not as highly touted as Grigorenko and Zadorov were.

Sakic already got burnt in a similar deal. He needs to be getting a key piece back that he can sell as a Duchene replacement long term. Not a couple magic beans.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Matt Duchene: 572 GP, 174 G, 418P (.73 PPG, .30 GPG)
Jordan Eberle: 507 GP, 165 G, 382P (.75 PPG, .32 GPG)

Arguably, Eberle is the better producer, but only by the smallest of margins. Having said that, Eberle was traded for a middling player on a smaller contract to clear cap space. To me, that is the market for a $6M player with no record of success. You don't put together a massive package for a player like Eberle or Duchene, especially if the guy is holding out or has demands to be traded.

Duchene for Ferland and call it a day, because that's all Duchene is worth.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

First of all, I personally believe Monahan is a better all-around center than Duchene. Full stop.

Secondly, you have mentioned Duchene and Tavares in the same breath as possible #1 centers that can become available. I don't see how Duchene is anywhere in that conversation for elite centers, let alone legitimate #1 centers.

He's much better suited to the wing, but plays center in Colorado because they have horrible center depth. He's a passable 2nd line center, but it's not his strength. The team that trades for him will either have horrible center depth and use him as a 2nd line center, or they will use him as a top winger.

I never claimed that Duchene is better then Monahan (though I think you can make a case.) Nor that he is at the same level as Tavares (who is one of the best players in the game). All I am saying is that it is reasonable the Flames will be investigating options to upgrade at centre.

Originally Posted by Beninho

I have to disagree, second half Monahan was great last season as his back injury seemed to be lingering. Playoff Monahan was even better and I think saying Monahan "may improve" is far too pessimistic. He's 22 and has scored 107 goals in his first 4 seasons. Yes there are aspects to his game that he needs to work on but I still can't believe people underrate him, he easily could be a 40 goal center with just slight improvements.

It isn't pessimistic at all. Monahan may be 22 but he has four full seasons in the NHL. Every centre on the list had reached their potential by that point. It is very possible Monahan is what he is going to be (which is a very good player). It is also possible we see him take a step forward.

[killer_carlson]

I'm resigned to the fact that if we're in on Duschene that it will involve Brodie going the other way, and Duschene agreeing to a new contract

I say that because I don't think we'd have signed Bennett to trade him shortly after. And I concur that draft picks and prospects won't get it done, because if it were it would have happened already.

For the record, I'd prefer to keep both Brodie or Bennett than have duschene

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Rumor was yeterday that the Avs were asking for Chabot from ottawa in a Duchene package. Thats a tell of their direction. what else are they asking for? no clue. but the Flames have a few Chabot level D men in their system.

Flames do not have any Chabot lavel D prospects in their system. Valimaki is looking decent but the rest of them are nowhere near Chabot's level.

Valimaki likely has to go the other way plus other things to get them to answer the phone.

[Backlunds_socks]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I'm resigned to the fact that if we're in on Duschene that it will involve Brodie going the other way, and Duschene agreeing to a new contract

I say that because I don't think we'd have signed Bennett to trade him shortly after. And I concur that draft picks and prospects won't get it done, because if it were it would have happened already.

For the record, I'd prefer to keep both Brodie or Bennett than have duschene

Duchene >> Bennett for sure.

Last year was anomalous for Duchene as it was the entire avs team. However, I don't think Duchene is a $6mil player.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Flames do not have any Chabot lavel D prospects in their system. Valimaki is looking decent but the rest of them are nowhere near Chabot's level.

Valimaki likely has to go the other way plus other things to get them to answer the phone.

If you're looking at Chabot in the same way I am, through stats and the odd scouting report, I think you're overrating Chabot a fair bit in comparison to Valimaki and Fox.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by New Era

Matt Duchene: 572 GP, 174 G, 418P (.73 PPG, .30 GPG)
Jordan Eberle: 507 GP, 165 G, 382P (.75 PPG, .32 GPG)

Arguably, Eberle is the better producer, but only by the smallest of margins. Having said that, Eberle was traded for a middling player on a smaller contract to clear cap space. To me, that is the market for a $6M player with no record of success. You don't put together a massive package for a player like Eberle or Duchene, especially if the guy is holding out or has demands to be traded.

Duchene for Ferland and call it a day, because that's all Duchene is worth.

If you boil it down to career offensive numbers and cap hit you are correct that the players have similar value. But that is a really limited view of the players. I think Duchene has a lot more perceived value by NHL GMs.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I never claimed that Duchene is better then Monahan (though I think you can make a case.) Nor that he is at the same level as Tavares (who is one of the best players in the game). All I am saying is that it is reasonable the Flames will be investigating options to upgrade at centre.

Ok, fair enough, but I was having trouble understanding your point then. I don't think that Duchene is an upgrade AT CENTER over either Monahan or Backlund. He would be a massive upgrade as a scoring winger though, and for that reason the Flames should consider acquiring him, but not at the expense of our entire farm system.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Flames do not have any Chabot lavel D prospects in their system. Valimaki is looking decent but the rest of them are nowhere near Chabot's level.

Valimaki likely has to go the other way plus other things to get them to answer the phone.

Valimaki, Andersson, Kylington, Fox. That's 4. If you disagree, cool beans.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Lol. It's prospects, so you never know how they'll actually turn out and who busts, but listing four prospect defensemen at the same level as Chabot?

It's pretty rare to find a list of top prospects for the NHL where Chabot isn't mentioned. Yet somehow the Flames have four defensemen at his level.

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-top...-ranking-2017/

Not that I care much for that list, but here he is ranked at 3rd, over players like Patrick and Keller.

[TheFlamesVan]

Originally Posted by Backlunds_socks

Duchene >> Bennett for sure.

Not a chance. We will reconvene in 5 years.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by kehatch

If you boil it down to career offensive numbers and cap hit you are correct that the players have similar value. But that is a really limited view of the players. I think Duchene has a lot more perceived value by NHL GMs.

Duchene has made the last Olympic roster and the World Cup squad last year.

I'd say he still holds tremendous value among GMs and Sakic's return should be along the lines of the Hall trade IMO.

If Sakic is trading Duchene he needs to get a young NHL defenseman with upside, not a prospect D-man.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by New Era

Matt Duchene: 572 GP, 174 G, 418P (.73 PPG, .30 GPG)
Jordan Eberle: 507 GP, 165 G, 382P (.75 PPG, .32 GPG)

Arguably, Eberle is the better producer, but only by the smallest of margins. Having said that, Eberle was traded for a middling player on a smaller contract to clear cap space. To me, that is the market for a $6M player with no record of success. You don't put together a massive package for a player like Eberle or Duchene, especially if the guy is holding out or has demands to be traded.

Duchene for Ferland and call it a day, because that's all Duchene is worth.

I don't think the parallel holds. I think Duchene is thought of league wide as a better player with a higher upside. I think he's seen as a more consistent competitor. And if you believe he can play centre long term then he plays the much more valuable position.

I think a lot more teams are interested in Duchene than were interested in Eberle. Thus his trade value is higher.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If you're looking at Chabot in the same way I am, through stats and the odd scouting report, I think you're overrating Chabot a fair bit in comparison to Valimaki and Fox.

http://www.tsn.ca/test1-1.677389

Craig Button's assessment of the top 50 prospects outside the NHL had Chabot at #3. It's only one scout's opinion but it tends to suggest Chabot is viewed as one of the best defenseman prospects outside the NHL. Button had him ahead of McAvoy and Sergachev.

Pretty clear you're underrating Chabot in this case.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Valimaki, Andersson, Kylington, Fox. That's 4. If you disagree, cool beans.

Doesn't really matter if we disagree. But it appears scouts disagree which tends to suggest GM's would disagree.