Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community
Old 07-21-2019, 03:20 PM   #1
TheSquatch
Backup Goalie
 
TheSquatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Exp:
Default Flames draft hits/misses vs other clubs

I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
TheSquatch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheSquatch For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 03:25 PM   #2
mikephoen
First Line Centre
 
mikephoen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
Why not do the research yourself?
__________________
www.CardShopTolaria.com
mikephoen is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to mikephoen For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 03:35 PM   #3
midniteowl
First Line Centre
 
midniteowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikephoen View Post
Why not do the research yourself?

Haha, start a new thread and ask people to do the research for him.
midniteowl is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to midniteowl For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 03:38 PM   #4
Dube
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Dube's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Cancun
Exp:
Default

Johnny was an ok hit
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScorpion View Post
Jesus. Calgary got fleeced by Don ####ing Waddell.
Dube is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dube For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 03:47 PM   #5
Caged Great
Franchise Player
 
Caged Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
Calgary has been at the lower end of that until more recently. Getting useful guys later on in the drafts has started to change since 2008 and we're probably on the top half now since then.
__________________
Fireside Chat - The #1 Flames Fan Podcast - FiresideChat.ca
Caged Great is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Caged Great For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 03:50 PM   #6
CanadaMatt
Scoring Winger
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Exp:
Default

Wow, the OP simply asks if anyone has done the research (presumably to save duplicating effort) and gets a smack down.

I was thinking the same thing Squatch. We’ve obviously had lots of misses over the years with 1st round picks such as Chris Chuko, Morgan Klimchuk and others not working out. I’d even say Bennett was a bust as our highest ever draft pick and looking like a 3rd line guy (middle 6 at best).

I’d balance that out with hits such as a Johnny and Moneyhands, Andersson, Valimaki.

My gut tells me the last 6 years has been good, but the 10 years before that, not so much. Someone (who may have already done the research) will probably price be wrong.
CanadaMatt is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to CanadaMatt For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 03:58 PM   #7
Caged Great
Franchise Player
 
Caged Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Things more or less started to change with the Backlund pick, but didn't really pick up until Tree.

In 2008, got Bouma in the 3rd, Brodie in the 4th
10, got Ferland in the 5th
11, Grandlund in the 2nd, Gaudreau in the 4th
15, Andersson, Kylington, and Eat Bread
16, Dube, Fox, Phillips and Parsons
18, Koumontzis, Pettersen and Zavgorovdniy
__________________
Fireside Chat - The #1 Flames Fan Podcast - FiresideChat.ca
Caged Great is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Caged Great For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 04:21 PM   #8
madmike
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Exp:
Default

It’s been pretty decent the last few years.

It is fair to say the Flames stink at drafting goalies though.
madmike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 04:25 PM   #9
TheSquatch
Backup Goalie
 
TheSquatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Exp:
Default

Why not do the research myself....

2 reasons - First, I suspect someone has it all packed up and ready to go. Second, I don't really know how to efficiently access whatever data bases people use for this kind of thing. It's not important enough to me to spend 10 hours on, frankly.

If someone knows the answer, great, if not, great.

If asking a question elicits such a sour faced response, I'll be sure and do it again.
TheSquatch is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheSquatch For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 04:26 PM   #10
TheSquatch
Backup Goalie
 
TheSquatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike View Post
It’s been pretty decent the last few years.

It is fair to say the Flames stink at drafting goalies though.
Or stink at developing them, not sure which. Maybe both.
TheSquatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 04:33 PM   #11
Calgary4LIfe
Franchise Player
 
Calgary4LIfe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
Why not do the research myself....

2 reasons - First, I suspect someone has it all packed up and ready to go. Second, I don't really know how to efficiently access whatever data bases people use for this kind of thing. It's not important enough to me to spend 10 hours on, frankly.

If someone knows the answer, great, if not, great.

If asking a question elicits such a sour faced response, I'll be sure and do it again.

An unbiased (at least towards the Flames) hockey fan has done something that you might be interested in over at HF. Should answer some of your questions fairly thoroughly, actually. Just go look in their prospects section under "Best Drafting Teams in the NHL". If anyone can find some better and more thorough work out there somewhere, I would be interested in knowing about it myself, but this is the best work I have seen on this subject thus far.



*spoilers*
NSFW!
Calgary4LIfe is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Calgary4LIfe For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 04:52 PM   #12
AustinL_NHL
Crash and Bang Winger
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Exp:
Default

Ever since Treliving took over, the Flames have been one of the top drafting teams in the NHL, if not the very best.

Someone actually did research on the value each team has gotten from their draft picks based on draft position and everything over the last 5, 10 and 15 years I believe and the Flames under Treliving were #1 I believe
AustinL_NHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 05:24 PM   #13
Freeway
Franchise Player
 
Freeway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

The lasting legacy of Feaster and Weisbrod's time here was making clear criterion for what the Flames valued, what it looked like, and how that structured their draft lists.
__________________

"Media" // Senior Contributing Editor @ FlamesNation // Flames contributor at The Sporting News // Twitter
// Sometimes you can see me in the background of scrums on TV
Freeway is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Freeway For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 05:36 PM   #14
TheSquatch
Backup Goalie
 
TheSquatch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Exp:
Default

Interesting, yes, they rank better than I expected by those metrics.
TheSquatch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 05:42 PM   #15
Monahammer
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Monahammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: St. Albert (Calgary-Jr.)
Exp:
Default

Came to mention the great work that Hf poster did. One of the few good posts on that terrible echo box.
Monahammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 05:50 PM   #16
Bingo
Owner
 
Bingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary
Exp:
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSquatch View Post
I have this feeling, backed up by nothing (except watching a very mediocre Flames team for long years bring up very mediocre AHL players) that the Flames draft record is worse than other teams.

I realize that they were happy to trade picks for players and weren't drafting at #3 overall. But I just remember years and years where our very best prospects were.... borderline NHLers, and guys who are actually pretty good (Brodie and Backlund off the top of my head) were really, really rare.


Has anyone looked at how many flames picks (at whatever spot) panned out vs other teams? I'm curious what those stats would look like. Is there a team that consistently drafted better talent in picks.... 40 to 100 say? than the Flames?
Recently saw a study that had the Flames in top spot in the last five years, and something like 7th overall in the last ten for mining talent.

I'll look for it.

Hard not to like the recent success though, especially with the lack of 1st and 2nds.
Bingo is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Bingo For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 06:18 PM   #17
Point Blank
Powerplay Quarterback
 
Point Blank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Exp:
Default

According to the analysis on Hfboards, Calgary has been the best drafting team in the past four years. From 2012-2015 however, Calgary ranked 21st.

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threa...e-nhl.2665533/
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751 View Post
The Oilers won't finish 14th in the West forever.

Eventually a couple of expansion teams will be added which will nestle the Oilers into 16th.
Point Blank is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Point Blank For This Useful Post:
Old 07-21-2019, 06:23 PM   #18
Mickey76
Backup Goalie
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Exp:
Default

I am amazed with all the scouting and tools in teams hands what a complete crapshoot the draft still is. I have always felt anything 4th round or later is nothing more than luck. Sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are not. I am too lazy but I wonder if you could fire your whole scouting department and just draft solely on the scouting bureaus number. I bet over 20 years you wouldn’t look out of place.
Mickey76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 06:46 PM   #19
Geeoff
#1 Goaltender
 
Geeoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Exp:
Default

Most of the current team drafted by Flames. Can't be that bad lately?

Wish we'd keep more picks TBH
Geeoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2019, 06:47 PM   #20
Yrebmi
First Line Centre
 
Yrebmi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Rocky Mt House
Exp:
Default

Squatch you are a relatively new member to the boards (welcome to CP! btw) and have begun a thread with negative implications. Well maybe not, but there was a time where Calgary was terrible at drafting the the memory remains sour. That might have got a couple members feeling defensive. Sorry if I/we misjudged you.

Glad to say, as others have, that good drafting is now a Flames strength.
Yrebmi is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Yrebmi For This Useful Post:
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:43 AM.

Calgary Flames
2017-18




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Calgarypuck 2016